Help – Don’t Know What To Do – Very Complex

[Legion1]

Dear April,

Thank you for reading this and for a response, or anyone else that gives me one. What I’m really here for is outside of my friends/family or her friends family, completely unbiased “don’t tell me what I want to hear” advice. I’m going to bold any direct questions, but this is very complex and might be too tough to even get an answer.

Since I seen you made a comment yesterday or others have, obviously that shows you’re maintaining your site, and no matter how hurt I am at the moment I can still be polite and say I admire you trying to help people and it must take a lot to listen to other people’s problems day in and day out. But who knows maybe you get some good questions or positive one’s as well.

My name is Legion for now, I am 30 years old and live in a Metropolis. I was raised in rural midwest, or small towns. In high school I was the class clown and was very popular, not the most, but not the least. I was dating a 22 year old woman, we’ll call her Wonder, she is also from the midwest but from a major city and not small towns. In high school she more or less had her glory days with a high school boyfriend of 3 years and basically messed around and barely graduated. While I took my glory/party days after the years of high school. But then dropped it immensely as I got older.

So to start, we broke up around a month ago, after 16 months of being together. All I can say is everyday is like living torture, and I would really like to move on. Part of me really wanted to save this relationship, going to leaps and bounds of things to try and do it, but I have too much fear that things will keep happening the same way with this woman. Plus I also think it’s the healthiest thing to move on, so while this might be short or long let me give you the details and you tell me what you think.

Ok 16 months ago I was very involved with a project I was doing, I literally went home everynight and did things online, sort of like writing a book, I got all holed up and worked on my project. Now basically I got together with Wonder because she had her friend knock on my door and we started to date. Back then I had a career job and was making good money before the recession hit of course. After dating for about a week she said “she doesn’t know if she wants to be in a long term relationship right now”. So we stopped dating and for a week I was really sad. I had went out and bought some yard furniture for my patio behind my apartment where we lived so close to each other that we could all sit on and it was now useless. Literally about 10 feet were how far our apartments were in the same building on adjacent walls.

Ok after that week all of a sudden she’s showing up and saying things like can I use your mirror I need to get ready to go out to a Rave, and would try on multiple dresses, ask me what I think and then I let her go out of course, nothing I could do about it, she said she didn’t want a long term relationship and I was ok, it’s not like I fell in love in one week.

Anyways after another week went by she came back and we started dating again and it got more serious. I don’t think I had sex with her until we were going out though, or I know for a fact I waited at least 3 weeks after dating, while that might not be the greatest or most mature of time frames I think 3 weeks is an ample amount of time as I don’t consider myself someone to just jump in bed with people.

Before we started dating I had got an OWI/DUI in another state and had my license taken away. For 2 years after that I drove illegaly, which I do feel bad about but the circumstances of that DUI were ridiculous. I take medication for anxiety, and when my medicine is mixed with alcohol(which I didn’t know at the time) it amplifies the [i]appearance[/i] of intoxication. Xanax. If I would have known I would have been more careful, and this probably wouldn’t have happened. Anyways I had mixed a few beers with the medication and was later convicted in the court case that I took to trial without them having any BAC or blood alcohol content. Because the state it occurred in can actually convict you without BAC. Nor would they allow my medical information into the case. I got sandbagged by a public defender and the jury never heard the full/real story.

Nonetheless going out was sometimes risky and in fact everyday was driving without insurance, driving without a license, my tags amazingly came in the mail again after purchasing them because of how the state works with insurance.

After the first month of serious exclusivity she thought I cheated on her one night with someone at a friends party of mine. There was like 50 people there, but nothing ever happened and she was really upset about this. I told her nothing happened and unless you catch me red-handed don’t call me a cheater because it’s insulting. I’ve also always had a fear without knowing maybe as much about people or relationships as you do. But I’ve always thought that the person who complains the most about something like cheating, is actually the cheater or is at risk for doing it. I have nothing to lose now and will say nothing happened, or I’ll say I had no sexual experiences with anyone that night.

Back to the story. She found out a few months into the relationship that I had a DUI and what my situation was. I honestly told her. Before the trial ever finished as I had to fly out of state several times. The last time I flew back in fact to just get sentenced and spend my two days in jail or 29 hours I had left. Which didn’t bother me at all. I guess it only natural that the night before I go to jail I went out and got drunk and then went home to my house where my mother lives in the midwest. Very SMALL town. An old fling I used to mess around with in the past, nothing but friends with benefits drank with me, and then I walked a few blocks home from where we were at. I did nothing but pass out. That’s it. I was drunk and tired.

Anyways the next day I wake up and see the old fling in my bed. We’re both above the covers, I remember I took my shirt off before falling asleep and had my pants on, and the other girl had all of her clothes on and her purse wrapped around her. See the thing is, the town is so small 1500 people or less, that my mother never locked the door. I mean what’s the point, no one is going to go randomly looking for riches by breaking in homes in a farming state. But that was my mother’s own perrogative. I KNOW nothing happened: for 1) we were drunk last night yes, but if something had happened I’m sure something like pants being off or belts undone would be indicators of this. 2) without being too gross or scientific or lewd, no signs of seminal fluid, dried or sticky appeared anywhere near my private region, letting me know she just came up to sleep as an old friend, as in the past she used to spend the night with me sometimes and we did nothing we just partied and hung out together when we were younger.

The next day I get a call from Wonder, and apparently I’m a total idiot, I tell her what happened, that my friend came over and spent the night with me but don’t worry nothing happened. After being happy to hear from me, she changed tone in conversation and seemed more distant. Later that day or the next day I went to the courthouse timing out when I was going to enter the jail and do my quick set of hours. Well I was texting her saying nothing happened, don’t worry about it, and I understand how you feel. Which apparently in life from things I’ve read, never tell people you understand how they feel if they are mad at you, because it’s insulting.

So I went to Jail and was bothered about this situation, amazingly was with only one cell mate in a wide open area, an old friend of mine, really an acquaintance or someone I knew, not really friend. Upon getting out of jail I tried calling her again before my plane left the next day and no response, as well as no response to a text of picking me up at the airport. At this point I dreaded the worst. I finally got on the plane, had two beers on it and was literally thinking I was going to have a heart attack on the plane. This was about 6 months in and we had past the point of saying I love you to each other.

I finally get back and I notice right away that it’s over because I notice some of her things missing from my apartment of which we now shared mutual keys for each others. She tells me that she can’t trust me, she’s balling at this point, and that if I gave a care about her I wouldn’t have done this. My resounding thought even at this point is, if she ever loved me this was proof of that. Because if she didn’t care why is she crying. I told her I didn’t do anything and I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t trust me. So we gave each other are keys and she left crying.

Seriously, I should have been a typical male and not been honest to follow stereotypes and not told her what really happened. But to every woman that ever reads this if I honestly was a cheater, why would I have called her and told her what happened and obviously what didn’t happen? Meaning, why if I had cheated would I put myself in a predicament to possibly lose the relationship? One could say maybe I wanted out, and I’ll say no, I just wanted to be honest with her and not tell her any lies.

That week I was worse off than before, I stopped talking to that girl in the other state that spent the night because yes, I blamed her for this breakup. It wasn’t my fault my mother never locks the door, and it wasn’t my fault that while asleep another woman came into our house and slept in the guest room king size bed with me. It’s not like we woke up cuddling either, she went home right away. But I was really depressed over that next week and took a day or two off from my job. I never cried until the very last minute. What I did was talk to other people, friends, family, co-workers, and they gave me there advice. I then decided to do something that never worked in my previous 2 failed engagements. I wrote her a 21 page letter, on fancy paper, with cutesy graphics, and said this is how I feel and I did not cheat on you and wrote her a poem in it, and basically just spilt my heart.

Less than 3 days later she came back, and we got back together again. She had a cat before this but didn’t know if she wanted to keep him anymore, and so she was almost going to give him up. I said that if we stayed together she’ll regret giving him up, which in the end oddly enough is where one question is going to arise. So with that package I also sent a picture of the cats with a “mom we miss you line” on it. Pretty convincing, heart provoking, and honestly it just worked.

After getting back together things were even better than before, which is what happened the previous time but a week of dating isn’t hard to overcome in the first instance. However this was twice now that she left and came back to me. Whether she would have come back with or without the letter I don’t know.

I then got some bad news about a week or two later saying my lease on my apartment was not going to be renewed. I had to move. I didn’t really want to move into her studio apartment with her, because I was in a one-bedroom and had too many things that wouldn’t fit, plus under a year it was just too early. So I looked at places to live and basically moved in with some of our mutual friends that had a room for rent in a house.

As far as the relationship was going, it was going great, the sex life was good, the time together was good, we laughed and had a great time almost every night. Very few fights. Only one I can remember in living there for 6 months was one time I was going to take her to Victoria’s Secret to buy her the “Wonder Bra”, how ironic the title. She came out with it on, and I like cleavage on women honestly I think it’s sexy. She said, what do you think, I said “umm…I’d prefer more cleavage” and she walked away. About an hour later after a quiet ride home she’s questioning why I said her body wasn’t good enough or that I don’t like her breasts. I was like, that isn’t what I said at all, what in the hell? I just said I liked more cleavage, there is no reason as to why I would have stayed with the woman if I didn’t like her body for the way it was. I just didn’t give her instant approval of the first one she showed me, and she took what I said entirely the wrong way. We made up that night and nothing came after that of fights or what not.

After the 6 months ended we moved into our own apartment together. A decent 1 bedroom we got on a good deal. Our birthdays came and went in June/July and then she was going to start up college again. She had been in college before but failed out or just quit. I was honestly a bit worried subconciously because I had been in a relationship/engagement with someone that was taking 8 classes a semester and finally broke down after a year and a half of college while engaged to me. It was long distance, I called her once a week for 8 weeks in a row and on the 40th day I sent her an email and broke up with her. People were telling me to just give her space, but jeez, in my mind I was thinking what is one hour on the phone, how hard is it to give that to one person. As I stated before I sent her my infamous letter and it didn’t work. She was resentful and would not give this another chance.

Now comes all the difficulty. We move in together and I feel guilty now for everyone that helped move things for us and for everyone that helped set our stuff up, because apparently it’s all going to be taken down. We had great times and we had bad times, like in any relationship. I don’t believe any relationship can work without a few fights and disagreements. It never got physical and I was never abusive. In fact now that it’s ended I feel like I was abused or used. I mean in the very beginning if she felt she wasn’t ready for a serious relationship, and walked away, with me doing nothing why did she come back? Most likely it’s because as humans we are interested in our own happiness regardless of others or the consequences of them.

Here is an example of one disagreement, of which she felt disrespected. I got home one day after helping her and her best friends boyfriend pick out a present for his girlfriend. I went outside for a ciggarette and with the screen open I said, “Wonder, turn on the tv to channel 31”, then I said “turn it up a bit”. I was having her turn it on to one of my favorite shows and hers as well and I was really excited to see it. Excitement made me sound commanding, but in no way did I have an intent to disrespect her. She went outside and apparently cried in front of her best friends boyfriend. I apologized later when I found out and told her in no way was that my intent, I just got excited and was laying out commands rather than asking nicely. I was wrong in this but I believe you forgive and forget in relationships and move on. Like I said, there will be rough times.

Due to the previous relationship where I lost a fiancee to not giving them enough space apparently, I thought it best when she started school to give her space to do her school work. So she typically went to the bedroom and did her own studying, or so I thought. I caught her from time to time wasting time on the internet. So there was some distance there as I was trying to do what I thought was right but apparently I was wrong. I should have been in there and helping her with her schooling perhaps. My issue was that at the same time when you want to give space, if you do the opposite you could come off as smothering. Which I didn’t want to do either. I left her alone, and now have lost my best friend, my lover, and my girlfriend.

She also started going to a nearby suburb to see her best friend again, whom had moved away of which she would spent the night away from the apartment. Twice in a row near the end and ironically near the time when I was going to get my license back, two days in a row she stayed at her friends house and then at some high school girlfriends house of people I’ve never met. She texted me both times saying where she was, the second time I didn’t text back. Stress was building because I was scared of getting caught driving within a week of getting my priveledges back. One day I called in and said I wasn’t going to work. I then stood up and she sat down on the couch and I literally was so panicky and scared even after taking a pill I told her, “I miss you, where have you been” while crying. She started to cry to and tell me that she is so sorry and that of all the things I do around the apartment like clean up and take care of things, that I’d be any girls dream boyfriend. I said I love you to her twice and she didn’t reciprocate. I felt better because I thought things were ok and glad to let her know I’m human and can cry for the first time in front of her. But then in the next week things happened.

She texted me telling me where she was at, she said I love you to me on the phone and dropped me off places or took me to work. We also had sex that week. 3 days later it’s a Saturday after I worked 9 days in a row, and she tells me “she’s still in this funk” and don’t worry she’ll get out of it. I then said, “well what is it about”, if it’s about schooling or other things I understand and talk to me about it, if not and it’s about me you should tell me. Honestly maybe I set myself up as the punching bag but I’m trying to be caring and supportive. During the last month sex had dwindled even after we pitched in for double the birth control pills so she doesn’t have to go down there that much. She told me “she doesn’t think she wants to spend the rest of her life with me”.

She then was getting ready for work, I had the day off like I said, and she asked, “so are we broken up or what”. I said “well Wonder if you don’t think you want to spend the rest of your life with me, that’s pretty hard to overcome.” Without giving an answer either way. For support I reached out to my 4 best friends to hopefully take me out and buy me a drink or two but none of them did. One called me back 3 times but had his mothers car and wouldn’t come and pick me up. Another called me back and said he was on this side of the town but never called back after that to come get me. Another answered immediately but was going out with his girlfriend and another never called me back until a few weeks later.

I started typing up a letter on the computer saying I was through with this. Admiddetly starting into panic mode and starting to give whatever answers I needed to as well to realize this relationship wasn’t best for us. In that letter I explained though that the things that drove me crazy about her, I got over or looked past. Because all of us and including you in my opinion have to accept people for there good qualities and there faults. Something my mother told me while on the phone talking about this, and she said it before I did, but after I had already written it to Wonder. Assuring me because my mother is older and wiser that I think I have my head on straight here.

I accidentally left the pc on while drunk, went to sleep and she had posted a response, but came in the bedroom saying she couldn’t sleep out in the living room. I woke up about an hour later as I haven’t been sleeping well at all, and I read her response. In stating that I was being so mean in saying her bad qualities, and that she has nothing bad to say to me, and that I’m just saying those things because I’m hurt. She stated whether I should find a place within two months and the other stays in the lease, whether she should or whether we should get through the lease together.

I responded again the next day letting her know how I feel and stupid me again brings up my past issues with Suicide. Not saying in anyway this is a cry for help or that I’m going to hurt myself, including my word that I won’t while we live together. I was basically telling her how things went before with the ex-fiancee and it’s just a part of my past. Of course the damage done is that she gets scared at seeing that and thinks I’m unstable or someone that is a risk to date most likely. I went to counseling, got through it and moved on. It was a very dark time, but I should never have brought it up because it didn’t do much to fix things, in fact it probably helped push her further away. That was about 5 years ago now to, so we’re well past it, as far as the ex-fiancee.

What bothered me right away was how fast she was at looking at our alternatives of living. Like this is over, and it’s not coming back, and that we need to be responsible and choose something and go with that. Due to the fact that it’s coming out of nowhere and the fact that if the lease ended we’d both have to pay the remaining balance we’re both kind of stuck. As the previous place I lived I lost my career job and went to work for a retail store to make ends meet in the interim until our economy improves.

Since breaking up I went through great pains including the falling down on the floor crying when I was at home alone. The worst part of the entire day is just waking up, and feeling her not there and it’s killing me. This time it’s really killing me. Part of me thinks she only ever started the relationship awhile back because she just wanted to feel good. Yes the sensible part says, you shouldn’t date someone if you aren’t ready for a long term relationship or a relationship at all, but it was if she only cared about feeling good and have someone take care of her and love her. This is a very selfish depiction of someone, but it also looks real to me.

I then went through depression and cried a few times in the times we’ve talked, or almost cried, and I could see her almost cry as well, and have seen her cry. What the hell is going on, it seems like two people that really care about each other are simply hurting each other for no reason? I mean it’s easier to walk away some might say, but I don’t know if I agree because then both of you have to deal with the pain, rather than just working it out and getting back on track which is a lot easier in my mind and always has been. Especially since we have all this history behind us and our relationship did get better both times it restarted.

After the depression I started writing in my journal and trying to analyze and figure out why it exactly occurred. I read somewhere that if you are going to break up with someone you should be entirely honest about it. Say the exact reason, don’t be vague, just say this is it. She was vague though and that gets me to the problem I’m in. We questioned it the next few days and talked more and more, and it always ended out bad. Saying things like “i’m just a loud person, or I yawn too loud” and that is not someone she wants to wake up to everyday. To me that is hugely petty. I mean, I yawn too loud and this was a warning sign like others that I did see but dismiss that she is just so damn immature. My problem with the maturity issue is that you cannot gauge immaturity by age. I might not be mature for pete’s sake, I don’t know. But it just seems like a childish reason to break up with someone. She said I do the dishes loud, I listen to my music loud, and I have a surround system with both of my tv’s and that I play movies loud. I had went before breaking up to buy that Loud N’ Clear thing you see on tv, so that I could hear better at lower volumes. I did this because for the past 2 months we haven’t been sleeping in the bedroom together because I like falling asleep to a movie and she doesn’t like the noise. I thought if I buy this, I can go back in the bedroom, we can sleep together, and things will be better. I also bought other things for the apartment, like a wine rack, coffee pot after she blew up her old one, spice rack, and things like that. She told me the day we broke up that she doesn’t know “whether she is ready to settle down or not and with all this stuff it just feels like she’s settling down”. I was like…”I just bought those things because I thought they would be a nice addition to the apartment, kind of filling in the blanks”. While she viewed it as, we’re out to get married or something. Of which I never even brought up except in the very beginning of our relationship saying that it is something I wanted. For the past 2 years I worked on my online project until 2 things happened, I lost my good paying job and wanted to cut expenses and validation for this was because it just was not producing results. No one seemed to be getting interested in it no matter how much effort we put forth and the effort was enormous, so I decided to close it down. Not because of my gf Wonder though.

After further discussions we had I kept questioning what was the real reason why and she said she didn’t want to hurt my feelings anymore. Also that when someone says suicide you don’t want to tell them anything that will hurt them. I told her I beat that and am NOT suicidal, I was just letting you know something I went through in the past.

Regardless since then three times I’ve reached out to her to try and make her feel good, she loves being felt, caressed and touched. So one night we watched a DVD together and I massaged her all over. Without getting anything in return.

After that I stated I am going to get rid of my cat, which ironically is where I’m going with this. I’ve chosen to get rid of my cat because I don’t want to have to deal with trying to find a new place with a cat around. If it’s a house with roommates it will just be more difficult to find. It’s better to cut ties and move on without him. Yes I love my cat, he is a great part of my life, but he is just a cat and in a recession I read something once that said if times are bad…get rid of the pets. I know it hurts but you have to survive before taking care of others. In one of our closing discussions we also talked of what to do with things. Remember the cat that I took care of, that used to be her’s. Well she’s under the belief that through the places I’ve moved since we began our relationship that it’s still her cat. I advised her it’s not and eventually got to a point of telling her this is what you owe me if you want him to be called yours. Which in fact it’s her best friends sister’s cat, which there dad didn’t want to have in his house anymore. I still attest possession is 9/10th’s of the law and the cat is mine. But in order to give Wonder what she wants, all I ask is that I be paid for what it cost to take care of him for so long. I don’t feel great about it, because I think she’s irresponsible leaving the cats with no food and no water some days back when we first started dating and even now at times.

After a few more discussions and using her phone one day to call my cell carrier to get a new phone sent to me, I went through her text messages and found a few from a guy she works with saying he has really strong feelings for her. Then another one that said we should just be friends. Which to me shows inclination to cheat. Since they happened before or right after we broke up. She claims in our discussions that everyone knows we’ve broken up, and I’ve of course thought that it could be another man, other women believe this as well that are way outside the situation, but she claims it’s not. However she stated she told the people that are interested in her that she’s not dating anyone else until I’m ok with this as it takes me longer to get through things since I care more than most people or are more emotional than others in life. Even asking me one night what do I want from her and my response is “I want you to love me”. Then her literally getting to a point of near anger where she says “I just don’t want to be with you anymore”.

Anyways, after that I had told her she had to pay me for the cat she thinks is her and is not. She can’t sleep in the bedroom anymore because she needs to get used to sleeping on that crap futon because that is where this is going. Sure I’d love to get back together, but not if it’s going to cost me more pain. I don’t mean simple fights or typical relationship difficulties, I’m talking someone that is unstable and can never keep her feet on the ground and say this is what I want through thick and thin, through good times and bad. Maybe I’m versing wedding vows, but you can never get there unless you hold true to those ideals. I also stated I was getting rid of my cat and she’s so upset about this. She’s pissed and thinks it’s idiotic that I have 7 months before our lease ends to find a new place for me and him.

I had told her one night when we were arguing that it’s as if she’s breaking up a family. Our two cats really care for each other. Yes they fight and have fun together but they also sleep close to each other and really care for each other, you can see it. I said, this isn’t a divorce but it feels like it because she refers to me as Daddy when talking to the cats and I refer to her as Mommy(even after we broke up). Plus I never wanted to get her pregnant while in school, or mess up her life or mine with that kind of difficulty. Children are great, don’t get me wrong people, but now is not the time since she is working towards something and I’m working towards getting back to the income I used to make.

In closing I have bought an online eBook called The Magic Of Making Up by TW Jackson. I was skeptical at first and really skeptical now because it seems all the things I’m trying aren’t working. The other day she was sleeping in the bedroom for probably the last time while I slept on the couch. I went in there not knowing she was asleep and put my new clothes on the corner of the bed, thinking I’ll wait till she wakes up to hang them up. She finally wakes up, I then finish what I’m doing on my laptop and go into the bedroom within 20 seconds she’s in the room, and what does she grab…? Her phone and pockets it. Which shows she’s probably hiding something. Of which other women out there that I’ve told this story to agree with. That it’s probably another man.

Here is a link to the eBook site and more and more I’m not thinking it’s a scam it just doesn’t cover all parameters. Like it says you need to give your ex space, well how the hell are you supposed to do that if you live together?

It also never lists a timeline of events. It says to do the second chance letter as soon as possible, but it never tells you when or how long you wait aside from wait a month before contacting. AGAIN, not assessing the situation of IF you live together. Maybe I should have looked at this like man/wife etc. Because we were living together.

I bought the book because part of me did want her back. I’ve read it all through once or twice and honestly it’s not that bad, it does talk things that other books could have given you as well. My issue is that it’s not clear on timing, and I’ve been stuck on chapter 3 for a long time. Do you really want to rekindle the relationship?

The more I think about it the answer is very difficult for me. Part of me says yes, part of me says no. Yes because I love her and want to care about her, no says because I don’t want to be toyed with or yo-yo’d around anymore by someone that is shaken easily. I wouldn’t say weak but emotionally damaged by little things that to most human beings would mean nothing.

I’ve tried both his second chance letter and his clean slate method and nothing seems to be working.

I do see that he is true in that every time we talk about the relationship it just pushes them further away, and I’m aware of that. I’m totally concious of it. What drives me crazy is that today for example, while I took another day off from work I tried to talk about moving on and she doesn’t want to hear that either.

So what the hell?

Everything I do is wrong.

Everything I say is wrong.

Not moving on is wrong.

Moving on is wrong.

…and it’s not like I don’t know the type of person she is. My issue is I don’t know what the hell to do. My issue is, I’m 30 years old and not worried about marriage or kids yet, and was just having a good time loving her and being in a relationship with her. But she seems like I’m ready to settle down and she’s not. Everyday no matter how mad she is I can see feelings of love and hate/annoyance flow from her. Why is the question and today after all this time I came up with one minor conclusion that could explain it, not for her, but for me. We moved in together too soon. It was so exciting in the past for her to come over and see me and see what I was doing, and the same in return, it was like a welcoming and respectful environment, because both people had there own places no matter how much time was spent at either place. But that was a huge factor. In moving in together she finally claimed yesterday that her perception of me changed though, and that is why she ended it.

BS

I only say that because yes I made some mistakes or said some wrong things as an example I listed above about turning the TV on. But we had a final talk or a talk lets say about 3 months ago and ever since then I’ve been incredibly nice, incredibly polite, and doing everything I thought I could do that was for her best interests. Including space for her schooling, which that might have been the wrong decision.

The issue is right now April, if I’ve not put you to sleep is that I would like to move on. Yes part of me still loves her because everyday I see her sleeping in places we made love or getting ready for work and giving her a kiss goodbye and the whole thing is just difficult. I want to get rid of my cat because I believe in total healing. I believe in getting rid of everything your ex once gave you, not as presents but more like the pictures on my pc, and my cat even though I got him before her. It was the interaction between her cat and mine that causes the pain.

I don’t want to be in pain anymore April. I know I’m a good man and I honestly believe that college changes people. She quit smoking after doing so throughout our whole relationship, she cut her hair, she has taken an interest in recycling, and wants to meet new people that are intelligent to fill some void. Little does she know I’m eons more intelligent than her. No offense to her, but with 8 years on my side, I’ve learned a lot.

I have taken another day off of work to get this topic to you, because I want an unbiased response. You can tell me exactly what I don’t want to hear.

She probably thinks I only want to get back with her and while a part of me does, sure I’ll admit that, a part of me doesn’t. I’ve been talking to two other women. I’m not a player but I’m sick of her bullshit to put it bluntly. I’m sick of unsureness and indecision all the time. I also don’t like being told that her perception of me changed when I’ve been really good to her over the past two months.

That book on making up said not to have contact with her/him because you’ll only drive them farther away. Don’t text message, don’t email, don’t call, don’t show up at places where you know you’ll both be at. I’ve committed one mistake, I panicked which is normal for a person that suffers from panic attacks, but still I don’t know what to do.

If I get rid of the cat I’m sure I’m putting the nail in the coffin but I’m ok with it if you think I should just move on. There will be more pets in the future, thats why they are called pets and not people. She apparently doesn’t feel the same about us being a family, even though she cried the other night when I told her I was giving my cat away the next day. I also massaged her two more nights since breaking up once while reading her homework to her and the other just two nights ago and she gives me nothing back. I’m not looking for sex, as I’m an attractive male that can get it. What I don’t understand is what she needs right now.

If our breaking up is bad or good, and going back out is bad or good because it shows we have a strong connection then great. I won’t give up the cat and will wait, and will stop talking about it. The thing I like abouut TW’s book is that it does talk about bettering yourself. The thing I don’t like is that I want a love that is pure and I don’t want someone to just fall in love with me again because they are jealous of seeing me with someone else.

Along time ago I told her my biggest concern was that she was too young and she would make foolish decisions that would hurt me and her. I don’t believe in stereotypes though and believe that people can be responsible regardless of there age. But if this is just the case that she just needs to date other people or sleep with other people, I really am honestly fine with it. You might think that strange, but my issue is honestly I don’t want her to be hurt. NO matter how hurt I am right now in considering giving up my cat and dating other people while she is not. She isn’t showing signs of hurt, she didn’t show signs of interest in the second chance letter, she didn’t seem to be interested in the clean slate approach, it’s like if I get her back I want her to want me for who I am, warts, zits, whatever I have, which I have neither but you get the point. I want her to want me for who I am.

In closing this is it:
[b]
In dating someone young are they more prone to making bad decisions which could hurt them later?[/b] Referring to breaking up with a good man that I believe I am, in order to seek a solution later that will be more difficult?
[b]
Can I give up my cat? Is it ok for me to move on? [/b] I want to because I don’t believe I deserve this pain and in fact think I did nothing wrong, aside from not give her enough attention and appreciation. [b]I’ll concede that but still even if she came back by her own free will should I give it another chance and not give up the cat because I do believe that will be the nail in the coffin?[/b]

Honestly April I want to move on and I want to move on with her or without her, I’m open minded to both approaches. I think TW’s guide is good as I said but i don’t want to trick her into wanting me back because how will I ever know it’s real? I’m ok with dating other people and I’m not that depressed what I need is someone to tell me that she is young immature and stupid and is going to make a big mistake in this. But like I said I don’t want her to be hurt either, while at the same time prolonging my cat staying with me because he is a reminder of her will only prolong the pain.

I feel the best thing to is move on, date other people, maybe closer to my age group, even though I always thought a 10 year age swing was good maybe it’s not. But yeah, maybe it’s time to move on and forget about this, or am I discounting and not giving credit to the fact that she might still love me. She might still love the fact that we’ve went through hard times and percevered.

Please give me your advice or evaluation.

Thank you April, and the sooner the better no offense because I want to be healthy and happy again, and while I understand college can confuse some people, this isn’t my fault since I had her best intentions in mind.

Thank you,

Legion

[April Masini]

Geez. That was ridiculously long — because this is not complex. It’s simple.

Your girlfriend isn’t interested in you any more, and you are working overtime to stay engaged with her by using positive and negative energy and dynamics interchangeably. Your living situation, where you’re sharing an apartment until your lease is up in 7 months from now, is a bad situation for your peace and happiness. I would advise you to get out of that situation ASAP, even if you have to lose money, or sleep on someone’s floor in a sleeping bag while keeping up your half of the rent in the apartment.

In answer to your questions at the bottom of your post….

1. Your girlfriend didn’t make bad decisions [i]because[/i] she was 22 years old. So, no, dating young people does not necessarily lead to their making bad decisions because they are young. There’s also not a huge difference between her 22 and your 30.

2. Your cat? 🙄 Who cares about your cat?? This cat has nothing to do with anything. You’re using it as an excuse to stay engaged with your ex-girlfriend with whom you’re still sharing an apartment. Forget the cat. And don’t claim your 9/10ths of the law is possession, since you seem to ignore the law when you’re not supposed to drive without a license but do, anyway. Don’t charge her fees for the cat. Let go.

3. It is absolutely okay for you to move on, but I suspect you already know that. I think you don’t want to move on, and until you do, you’re going to stay engaged. I hope for your own health and happiness that you do decide to let go and move on. It’s a better idea than what you’ve described below.

I hope that helps. Good luck!

[Legion1]

Hello April,

Thank you for the response, I really appreciate it. I’ll keep this much much shorter.

To start, that was my suspect as well, that she just wasn’t interested in me anymore. A week or two before breaking up I was actually looking up “signs that she/he isn’t interested in you anymore”. So I have already considered that and thought about it. It just hurts I guess because there was no effort on her part to try and be interested, and in that last week like I described she was showing interest again and I was even more confused the week later when we broke up. Like why would you have sex with someone 3 days before breaking up. If I had made a decision to break up with someone, I would not be having sex with them the week before that. My fear and biggest fear here is what if she wants to get back together down the road? What am I supposed to do then? I think the relationship is unhealthy because it’s an off again on again type of experience, but I don’t want to make any drastic changes in either of our lives if we’re just going to get back together again. My thought is, it isn’t healthy and I should just move on, and let her be indecisive as long as she wants to in life.

1) I didn’t think the age difference was a big difference either. But she seems stemmed on the concept that I’m ready to settle down and she’s not. Which isn’t the case. Like I said I was just enjoying our time together. Whether it’s youth or in general just immaturity I do think and know that I have personally made bad relationship choices while I was younger, and you never know when your making the right decision or not in anything in life. Whether it’s a relationship or anything else, until hindsight and then everything is so clear, and it’s almost always too late. I’m not disagreeing with you, but I’m not agreeing either, it’s more of a case of I think she needs to mature a lot more before taking on a relationship of any kind with anyone.

2) The cat issue I might not have been clear on. I have my own cat, and that was the one I wanted to get rid of. Because as I said I don’t think it’s healthy to hold on to things that remind you of someone you had good times with. It’s like my own “clean slate” method. I was just wondering if I get rid of the cat am I putting the nail in the coffin and making sure she’ll never try to come back to this, and the underlying question if within 1 or 2 weeks giving a random time frame here, she wants to get back together whether the cat is still here or not, should I honestly take her back?

The other cat is not hers, I took care of it for 2 years and basically fed and watered it through that whole time. Now because we’re breaking up I should be self-sacrificing and let her have that cat back because she has a bond with it. Call me a jerk, I’m ok, but I’m not going to let my ex walk all over me. I don’t want to split up the cats, but if she doesn’t want to work on our relationship I think I’m being overly fair in simply saying pay me for what it cost to take care of the cat and you can keep him. My mother who is biased to me probably says “she wants to have her cake and eat it to”, which I ironically agree with. She doesn’t have the right to hurt my feelings, let this whole things go on for so long and then expect me to just give things to her that aren’t hers. I’m telling you I took care of that cat when she didn’t live with me, and when she didn’t live with me in the second place I lived at during this relationship, prior to us getting our place together. I have no responsibilities to her as I am not her boyfriend anymore, and do not agree that I should just let go of that cat because she likes him more. If you want it, while you can’t take back or repay all the effort it took in caring for him, you should pay for the expenses at least. I think that is just courtesy.

3) The issue is you’re off, I was hoping you would say it’s ok for me to get rid of my OWN cat, and the other cat she can pay the expenses for as that is more or less a legal matter. I didn’t expect the remark on breaking the law, but we all break the law in our lives and none of us are innocent. I didn’t think I was drunk and the medication I’m has amplifying effects when mixed with alcohol, my fault I admit it, I should have known more about what I was taking.

I also was hoping for someone, anyone to say it’s ok for me to move on. I really was. Yeah it would be great to get back together but in that guys book I was reading I got stuck on Chapter 3 of “do you really want them back”. When I evaluate the good times and believe in love and believe that anything can be worked out through counseling or through talking even, it can’t work if only one person is trying. So while I was wanting the honest truth, you gave that to me, and ironically to what many people come here for perhaps which is there is still a chance to get back together, I’m ready to move on. I don’t let things confuse me that much, I have known since I was 16 years old that I wanted to get married, get a job, have some kids, and live a normal life. Since she went to college it’s like every thing has changed about her, including now what she is saying is her perception of me.

I haven’t changed though, in deep analysis I did abandon her in a sense because I thought it was the best thing to do in letting her study for school but I know now that it wasn’t. I should have stayed a presence in her life. But I can’t sit here and suffer forever, and I can’t sit here and have conversations about this relationship every time we sit and talk. Yes it would be great to fix all these things or whatever her disinterest is at this time, but I don’t know how to deal with people that make multiple dramatic changes in there lives. Sure I’d love to be that husband type that sticks through every moment of thick and thin, but jeez…what do you want from me.

I really am thankful for your response, and if you want to comment on whether I should take her back if she does come back to this, because she is PRONE to doing that in the past, that would help to. I’m gonna go on a date this weekend with someone else, if we can get our schedules straight, but again I’m really having difficulty with someone that changes there mind back and forth like a pendulum.

Thank you April,

Legion1

[April Masini]

You tend to be narcissistic in your views, and it would serve you well to understand that just because you have an idea, doesn’t mean it’s right, or that anyone else shares your feelings or thoughts.

When you write “there was no effort on her part to try and be interested” you’re assuming she is supposed to be make an effort. That’s pretty self-centered of you, and basically wrong! 😮 She can do whatever she wants. She’s her own person, and you are your own person. Just because you think she should have made an effort to “try and be interested” in you doesn’t mean you’re correct. 😕 In fact, you’re not. You’re wrong.

When someone tries to be right, they never win. It’s a common dynamic in couples breaking up. Because they can’t have the relationship, they try to be right. That’s where you’re headed. You’re turning a simple rejection into an analytic report on right and wrong, but you’ve only got one point of view here! So stop talking about what other people do. You’re only an authority on you.

When you say that everyone breaks the law, you’re wrong again. You may (and have) broken the law, but you have no authority to talk about other people, and the truth is not everyone does break the law. But what is more important is that you are hiding behind these erroneous “facts” that you seem to spout about other people, and your girlfriend.

I’m sorry if this is harsh, but you really need to “get this” in order to move on with your life.

She had every right to have sex with you and then break up with you 3 days later. Sometimes people do that, and rather than surmise why she did it, you could get the truth by asking her and listening to her answer, and not arguing it. Just accepting.

As for the cats, again, the cats have nothing to do with this. Stop playing games with the cats. If she wants them, and you genuinely don’t, give them to her. Don’t charge her. Take the high road. Be the bigger person. Let her have her cake and eat it, too if you think that’s what she’s doing (which may or may not be true), because you are no longer interested in punishing her or evening the score — you just want to move on, and if giving her the cat or the cats makes moving on easier, than do it. Because [i]that [/i]should be your goal. 🙂

My advice is not to date her any more, whether or not she comes back to you, because your dynamic with her is not healthy, and it’s putting you in emotional discord. Dating and being in a relationship shouldn’t be this hard, this soon. Forget about her, and focus on you — and only you! Not her.

I hope that you’ll let this relationship go, and move on, next time, making more prudent decisions about women based on what you’ve learned from your past relationships!

I hope that helps!

[Legion1]

Hey April,

Thanks again for the response, I appreciate it.

I don’t know if it’s harshness I’m feeling or what, but narcissism is an irony to hear. I mean haven’t I read everywhere on the net and in books that we should love ourselves and be happy with ourselves? I in NO WAY want to blame all of this on her, and maybe I’m mistaking that by my comment I made on her not trying to be interested or making any effort.

Just as it takes two for any relationship to succeed it takes two for it to fail, so like I’ve said multiple times I believe I’m owning up to my side of the situation. Which was I should not have…just left her alone to do her schooling and such, I should have been a presence because then she would have known I still appreciated her and cared rather than her assuming I don’t and perhaps finding love elsewhere or just disinterest.

When you say I’m wrong about making an effort on either of our parts, isn’t that saying that we shouldn’t really try to be good to one another? Like I said just a moment ago, it’s both of our faults, but are you really saying that just because we are our own people we can just up and leave or up and be disinterested in any person we are with in our lives without any aspect of loyalty or dedication to someone? Who knows, maybe dedication to someone is my biggest downfall and what makes it hard to just walk away from relationships or start them when they never should have occurred. I don’t know. I guess I look at it like this, many times during this relationship I’ll see a pretty woman or whatever, and I think it’s natural and human for both sexes to do this and be like, “wow, she/he is so attractive”, the thing is it’s the loyalty you have to your significant other and dedication to that, that keeps your feet on the ground.

Maybe I’m crazy, maybe I have it all wrong, but that is how I viewed things through most of my relationships. There has been a woman for example that is physically more appealing to me than my ex, not necessarily in my opinion but on looks alone I’d bet 9 of 10 men would agree with this, that has wanted me for the past 7 months I work with her but on different shifts. All the time I had this feeling she liked me, but of course never pursued it, and one day it was made pretty loud and clear by some over-flirting she was doing. Still, I stayed with the person I was with because I think loyalty and dedication are more important than just going off of lust or impulse.

Again, maybe I’m wrong in all of this.

About the law, no one can make generalizations about all humans, but if I was to ask you, or my mother or anyone I know, have you ever got a speeding ticket before? 90% of people would say yes, that’s breaking the law. I didn’t mean to the same degree as my DUI, and there are some people out there who really never have, but most do at some point in there entire life.

As far as seeking the answer to the question of the sex or the I love you’s that happened a few days before we broke up. That’s the problem with the whole thing, which has caused a fairly natural and human reaction, analysis of what just happened here? Because in general those things just cause confusion, it’s like why would you do loving things, if you were planning to break up with me??? That’s contradictory, it doesn’t make sense, but I honestly have never got a clear answer on why we broke up. I got about 15 different answers, including one so “erroneous” as you put it, like “nothing you did was a reason to break up with you”…ok so what is going on??? It’s not that I want to argue with her, you, my mother, my friends, for pete’s sake. I did read one thing in a book that was very important, it said if you’re going to break up don’t be vague, just be totally honest no matter how much it is going to hurt the other person. That way there is no confusion and the healing and the moving on process is a lot easier. I haven’t ever got an honest answer, or I’ve received too many different answers that I have no idea, aside from just agreeing with you that she just lost interest.

I’m not playing games with the cats. My cat she has never stated she wanted, she just wants control and does not want me to get rid of him to a good organization like the dumb friends league where he can find a good home. How am I a bad person in doing this? I’m not getting rid of him because of her, I’m getting rid of him as I’ve said because I don’t want to have to find a new place with a cat, and honestly I’m tired of him opening cupboards and spraying on the floor. I’ve owned like 10 pets in my life, it’s not like I can’t get another one, and it’s not like I’m dropping him off on some street in the cold to fend for himself. Additionally I will admit though, I want to move on fully and don’t want anymore reminders of her. The more I hold onto him April, the more I’m going to psychologically and mentally hold onto this relationship. I don’t think that’s a healthy thing to do.

I had a feeling someone was going to tell me the “be the better person line”. Do you know how many times in my life I’ve heard that, and how many times I’ve done it? What exactly does it do for me? What solace would I have in just giving her the cat I took care of for 2 years? I’ll be honest, whether we were dating right now or not I think she is very irresponsible. 2 days specifically since breaking up I’ve come home from working late to find she’s gone at work or with friends and the cats have no food/water. I did see this with the cat she used to take care of as well when we first started dating, but I didn’t analyze it to see what deeper meaning it had. I don’t feel comfortable giving her either of the cats in my honest, no bs opinion. This isn’t hurt, anger, not being in the relationship talking, I’m telling you, I don’t feel comfortable with it at all. I’m trying to be nice and let her have the cat and in fact I first said she can just have the one she wants, then my mother said you’re letting her walk all over you have her pay for what it cost to take care of him, have her be responsible and then she will never feel like she owes you anything. Which might not be a bad philosophy.

I’m trying to move on like I said, I called and set a date/time for friday, again I’m not going into a rebound, we’re seeing each other as friends, if more happens later it’s going to happen when I’m ready, if not we’ve both agreed to just be friends and that’s a pleasant reward as well.

In closing I do have one last question and then I think I’m done here. In some of your other topics on the site here that others have commented or made questions to you, one recent one stood out. It was about the wife that was married for 17 years, is now 34, and is no longer interested in her husband. I can link you to it if you like, but it was within the past few days or week I believe. She claimed she had two kids both in there teens, and she still loved her husband but she is just no longer is interested and wants to know what she’s missing out there. You actually told her to stay at least until the kids leave school and to try and see in her husband what she thinks she’s missing. I don’t want to talk about other’s issues, but I have to reference this for my question. My question is how am I ever going to know when I’m in a relationship that is worth fighting for? Will I ever know, or at the first sign of bad things, do I just walk away? That is my ultimate confusion with myself in this issue, and I’m doing as you said, trying to focus on myself in this question. How am I ever going to know? Is there some time frame? Do you have to be married? Married with kids? The thing that depresses me a lot in general is the way our divorce rate has climbed so high, it’s that no one really has the staying power any more to stick through the thick and thin of relationships.

The past two days she has initiated conversations with me having finding out I’m going to go see another woman. I don’t know if it’s jealousy, if she is second guessing herself since we all do that….OR HERE WE GO AGAIN, had to use caps for that sorry. The I miss him, I want to talk to him, I know what a good guy he was to be with, and blah blah blah. I’m right now 60-70% healed in my own self-analysis, and I agree the dynamics are unhealthy. Then what if she comes on strong April and really convinces me that this isn’t the right decision and we should give this a shot again. How am I going to resist her? You say learn from my previous relationship experiences and you also say that 22 year olds don’t always make bad decisions, or not necessarily, but she admittedly doesn’t have as much experience as I do as I’m older and have dated long term more than double the people she has. Am I stinting her growth in relationship experience by taking her back?

I’m the weakest right now to resisting her since I’m not fully healed, I know that, but once I am it will be easier to resist her come on’s and trying to get me back like she has twice before. The truth is I don’t necessarily miss the sex, miss the going out on dates, or the kisses/hugs, the issue is I miss her as the friend I had. I said that to her the day I cried a week before we broke up. I miss her as a person, and that’s what hurts the most. It’s not, not spending the rest of my life with her, that does hurt, but it’s doubly damaging when in fact you miss the friendship. I have to be honest, I don’t know if I can be friends with her after this, or will want to.

I did get some good advice, on Monday I’m going to talk to the leasing office and see if there is anyway to get out of this lease without owing thousands. I don’t think I ever mentioned that but that is why neither of us can move out, they kind of have us trapped. I’m sure it won’t work, but someone told me, sometimes they can be compassionate to these situations and will let one or both of you go due to the circumstances. I doubt it, but it’s worth a shot so I’ll go see. The sooner I can get out of here the sooner I’ll be at 100%.

Thank you so much for your responses April, whether you think they are helping or not, they really are.

You’re a treasure,

Patrick

[April Masini]

Hi Patrick:

Your particular idea of loyalty is not shared by everyone, and that’s where I suggested your narcissism. Just because you have a value or standard does not mean anyone else shares it, and it is damaging to yourself to assume your views are held by others.

In the normal dating world, a commitment is usually signified by a proposal of marriage and the marriage itself. When I advised the woman with children to stay loyal to her marriage it was a COMPLETELY different situation than yours because she and her husband were married and had children. Children don’t have choices when parents divorce the way adults do, and my suggestion of loyalty was probably because she cared about putting her children first. Her life was not the only one at stake in her situation. Her children’s lives were tantamount. You don’t have kids, so it’s an entirely different situation. To compare them is to do yourself a disservice.

You’re not engaged. You’re not married. You don’t have children. For you to assume the same sort of loyalty from a girlfriend is delusional.

You may have read lots of information and books about relationships, but you need to put down the books and look around you and really take in what other people are thinking, saying, feeling and doing. It’s fine to honor your own feelings and your sense of self, but if you want to be in a relationship with someone else, you need to have a realistic perspective on the community you live in and the people you are engaged with.

I hope that helps!

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