[Steve]

Thanks, April. It does help…a great deal in fact. You’re very right on with most of your comments, but I guess that’s no surprise. You’ve given me a lot to think about here and I will certainly heed your advice and slow things down a bit with my new girlfriend. She is smart and compassionate and I think she has a lot to offer to offer, but we are both still plenty young and have no reason to hurry. Just as my daughter and I are still adjusting and healing so is she and her kids to a very traumatic loss of their own. We both respect each other enough to give each other the time needed to heal and in the long run know that it will payoff…regardless of whether that means things work out between us or they don’t…either way I think it will be for the right reasons and your advice will certainly contribute to that.

I also want to mention that you were spot-on with many of your points and I won’t go into much detail on that other than to say that while thinking over your comments, I did realize that I am so lucky to have many friends and family members who are supportive and willing to listen, yet when I talk with them about my divorce, I always keep it very factual and don’t go into how hurt I was by the situation…I will do better to take advantage of these resources and process more about how I was hurt by the rejection.

Many thanks for your wise and kind words!

[Steve]

[quote]I would ask her out, its just that normally, at least from my experience the girl will tell one of her friends and her friend will tell me she likes me, and then I can go from there, thats whats throwing me off.[/quote]

Hmmm…I’m not sure how old you are, but it sounds like somewhere in your mid-high school years…somewhere at the point of where we all go through the maturation process of letting our friends speak for us to being bold enough to do our own “dirty work.” That’s likely why you are so uncomfortable about this…sure it’s a lot more comfortable when you’ve got all of results figured out before you ever even ask someone out, but the reality is that, that really doesn’t work in life as an adult, whether we’re talking about dating or anything else in life, there are always those times that in order to succeed you’ve got to step up to the plate and take some risks. And, yes…you will fail sometimes and it will probably sting a bit, but that’s part of what it takes…most successful business people will tell you that the only reason they’re more successful than others is because they’ve failed more times than others. So, if it’s not too late with this girl, you should call her right away and clearly ask her out on a date with a clear delineation that it is a date and not “hanging out.” The worst that can happen is she’ll say no and your friendship won’t be the same any more (and trust me, your friendship isn’t going to be the same anymore at this point anyway) and you’ll feel bad for a little while, then you’ll eventually realize that you lived through it and it will be helpful for you the next time. Of course the best thing that can happen is that she’ll say yes and she’ll be so impressed that a boy finally had the guts to ask her out direct rather than through his friends and be talking you up to her friends and it will be the beginning of a long and fruitful tenure for you as the “Don Juan” of your school.

Good luck with her…have fun!

[Steve]

I was glad to read your post, TLYN. I’ve been wondering a lot of the same things about the new “relationship” I am currently involved in (I also have one of those brains that over-analyzes everything 😉…that’s why I read these type of sites, I guess). It’s also interesting to hear a little about this type of scenario from the female perspective. Most people who post here seem to have some kind of problem in their relationship that they’re looking for help with, which is great and we can all a learn a lot from that, but your post is more like “everything is great, so what am I missing?” which is sometimes exactly how I feel.

Regarding your point about some of his more recent texts not being as sweet as some of the first ones…I wouldn’t make too much of that…During those first few dates it’s like an all out sprint and your wit, charm and creative juices are flowing freely, but no one can keep up that pace forever…at least that is how it went for me…during/after the first couple of wonderful dates with the woman I’m currently dating…we were laughing and giggling at all the right times and I don’t care if it was on the phone, in person or even just a two-word text message, it just seemed that I always had the perfect thing to say at the perfect time and I just couldn’t miss, but after a few weeks our dialogue (whether verbally or by text or email) settled into more routine every-day conversations…at first I was worried about things fizzling too quickly, but soon realized that the fun and wittiness was great for charming the socks of her at first, but our conversations have become much more meaningful as the relationship has evolved…sure we still have plenty of opportunities for flirting and laughing and I know that’s important to maintain, but sometimes I just want to know how her day was…even on the bad days.

I am anxious to read April’s response to your question, because it is crazy sometimes that at my age and spending all of my adult life developing many, many types of relationships (some more successful than others, as evidenced by my former marriage) that I still find myself perplexed by the dating world. It seems like everything is great, but I can’t help but feel as though I’m overlooking some important detail.

Good luck to you and your realtor friend!

[Steve]

Have you ever made an impulse buy only to find out later that you really don’t like it? Say for example you buy a new pair of shoes for $200…they’re a little different than your normal style, but something excites you about them in the moment and you buy ‘em. A week later you have an opportunity to wear them out only to realize that you really don’t like them as much as you thought…they don’t really suit your style and they don’t go with anything else you have, but what do we normally do in that circumstance? We try to make ourselves like them…after all we’ve now made such an investment, we had better get something out of it. Even though theirs something uncomfortable about them, we tell ourselves that really they are exactly what we want…it’s just a matter of getting used to them. So, we wear the shoes out and end up feeling uncomfortable and self-conscious all night, constantly trying to justify that the shoes were a wise purchase.

I know this analogy is a bit of a stretch, but it has been my observation reading many of the posts on this site as well as some of my own past relationships that we all do this from time-to-time in relationships. Even though we know that a relationship may not be the right one, we just feel like we’ve got so much invested and don’t want to start over that we try to justify that the relationship is better than it is…I did this for 8 years of marriage…I don’t regret it as it was a great learning experience and I’m still young and know that my future relationships will be better because of it.

Anyway, the above post caused me to think about this and just thought I’d share.

[Steve]

Boy does your post bring back memories for me…I remember going through what you are a long time ago…18 years old thinking I had missed my one chance at true love. Unfortunately, when I was your age, I didn’t have the internet and sites like this to learn from and it took a while to figure out that my dating life was really just getting started at that point…dozens of girls, one marriage, one divorce, a daughter and 18 years later, I now know what I wish I knew then…the fun is just beginning for you, my friend!

I do still remember that one girl from high school and she will always hold a special place in my heart as my “first love” and for what I learned from that relationship…in fact every one along the way is part of who I am today and regardless of the circumstances…I cherish every one of them…yes…even that one girl who tore out my heart and stomped on it 😉

Now…I hope I’m not stealing April’s thunder here, but I recommend you buy her book, “Date out Your League.” It was written just for guys like us. You can download it directly from this site. (If you’re really feeling ambitious, go out and buy/download Bob Dylan’s “Blood on the Tracks” album…you’ll learn that he’s a lot like you, just a lot better with words.)

I can guess you’re the kind of guy who’s not afraid to fall in love and in due time many women will appreciate that about you…I know it’s hard to believe right now, but you will probably fall in love many more times and soon this girl will be a distant (albeit important and fond) memory for you. The things about her that will matter for the rest of your life have already happened…your next words won’t change that one bit. Don’t forget about her…always remember what you learned from her. You and she are probably each other’s “first love” and that will never change. Now, with that in mind, move on to the rest of your life…trust me, you’ll have a blast.

[Steve]

So, April…when you say, “I want to add and invite Moose to let go of any blame for the divorce. That means not blaming yourself or your ex-wife.” I kind of suspect that even though you are referring to Moose here, there’s some subtle advice for me in there as well…to that end…duly noted. 😉 I went back and read my post and noticed that there must be a little resentment still left toward my ex…I try not to do that as she is my daughter’s mother and it is much better for our daughter if we can respect each other. The funny thing is that I regularly have to remind my own mother of the very same thing (“Mom, I know you are still upset with her for leaving the marriage, but remember that she is still your granddaughter’s mother and your granddaughter loves her mother very much.”)…yet here I am talking about her being responsible for the failure of the marriage…I’ll work on that!

Back to Moose…I know it won’t change your outlook now, but maybe it will help…stop thinking about all the reasons why not and just come up with one good reason why. You know there is absolutely no truth to the idea that there isn’t any one Earth compatible with you. I once took the eHarmony “personality profile” (I assume that’s the free test you’re referring to) and as I recall it doesn’t give you any absolutes such as what types of women you are compatible with, but rather it gives you a narrative of what types of positive and negative reactions people might have toward you…go back and look at some of those positives.

Also try some other sites…I never used eHarmony because my divorce wasn’t final at the time and they won’t let you on the site if you’re just separated. Try match.com…there you can complete your own profile and they walk you through the characteristics of what you’re looking for rather than what types of people are compatible with you. Then they will provide you with profiles of women who meet your criteria…let them decide if they feel compatible, not some test (keep in mind you get to decide who you’re compatible with too…it goes both ways). Don’t worry about the rejection it’s a necessary part of the process…remember what Ted Williams once said…“Those that fail ‘only’ seven times out of ten attempts will be the greatest in the game.” Or perhaps you’re a football guy…not only does Brett Favre hold the NFL record for the most career passing yards, he also holds the record for the most career interceptions. Maybe you’re not a sports guy at all…Part of my job is in sales and there’s a saying among the most successful sales people that goes, “I am more successful than you because I’ve heard ‘No’ more times than you.” In other words, significant numbers of failures are a necessary ingredient for success…in any aspect of life dating and relationships are no different.

Regarding your decision not to dress or adjust your style in ways outside your comfort-zone because it makes you nervous…of course it will, at first. Weren’t you nervous the first day of anew job? Surely you were, but you still went because you needed the job…eventually you became more comfortable. It doesn’t change who you are, simply how you present who you are…surely you’ve heard the saying that, “even a Ferrari needs a tune-up once in a while.” At one point you said you used to be the guy that opened doors for women and brought flowers…you still are that guy, you’re just not doing those things these days.

Lastly, you say you’re done with marriage because you don’t want to go through another divorce…not every marriage ends in divorce, in fact I believe only about half of them do. So, based on that statistic, your odds should be pretty good the second time around (I remember once I had to fly with a colleague who had a fear of flying and had never flown before…I suggested a specific airline because they had a perfect record of zero crashes…he declined and said he wanted to fly on the airline with the most crashes…statistically speaking they’ve already gotten theirs out of the way.)

Sorry to be so persistent…but you just remind me so much of myself that I can’t help it. I dreaded the very idea of dating again after my divorce and at first it was very awkward and I had a defeatist attitude, but soon I started to adjust and have fun. In fact…when I was first approached by a friend about being introduced to my current girlfriend, my automatic response was that I’d be happy to meet her because I’m always up for an adventure…had I not done all the things I am suggesting above, I’m sure my response would have been no thanks…it won’t work out and it will just make everyone involved uncomfortable and I would have missed out on the opportunity to meet this wonderful woman who may or may not turn out to be a very important part of my future.

Like I said, I know I probably won’t change your mind now, but hopefully this all gives you more to think about…opening doors and bringing flowers is something that makes you feel good…find someone who will appreciate those types of things and you will both be much happier.

[Steve]

Maybe I can compliment April’s points, Moose, with a few more from a male perspective. I’m a divorced man as well (34)…the divorce wasn’t my call either. For me it wasn’t so much the “broken-heart” but the concern over how it affects my daughter and the feeling of failing of family life, which was always the cornerstone of my motivation. Sure, at first I felt a little heart-broken and insecure over my ex-wife’s decision to leave the marriage, but I quickly decided that I would focus on my successes in life and not my failures. At first I wanted to think about all of the things I did wrong in the marriage to make her leave, then realized, that it wasn’t me who failed, it was her…she was the one making the decision and not willing to do what it takes for a successful marriage. I wasn’t perfect, but I was always a pretty darn good husband, provider and most of all a great father.

Then there was the “fear” that once I would be single again that the choice of available women at my would be limited to those incapable of making relationships work in the first place…a good friend asked me one time if I believed that I was a good man capable of love and the ability to maintain happy and healthy relationships. Of course I said I was, he then asked me why I would be the only single/divorced person around in that situation…obviously, I got the point.

Once I started focusing all the things I’ve done right and realized that there were plenty of other women out there who would relate to my circumstances and vice-versa, I found myself excited to re-enter the dating world. As April suggests, I did make some appearance changes in hair style and style of dress…I’ve always been a fairly confident man, but since my confidence was a little shaken this time, these changes really helped me get it back. Suddenly I was feeling young and energized and had a great time getting out there dating again…in fact, I used to tell my married buddies that the consolation prize for a failed marriage is that you get to get out there darting again like when you were young, except this time armed with a lot more wisdom. I met a lot of interesting women and had a lot of fun dates, even the ones that didn’t work out so well…eventually I was introduced to someone, which has developed into an exclusive relationship that we both very much enjoy…at least for now. The great news is that while I can see this developing into a lasting relationship…I also know that if things don’t work out, it will be fine because I’ve been through it before.

In addition to April’s advice about going to the gym, coffee shop etc., I recommend you go back to the online dating sites like e-harmony or match and keep looking. Just because the first result was no match, doesn’t mean a thing other than your criteria might be to narrow and/or your Ms. Right simply hasn’t signed up for that particular site yet.

Above all else though, think about your successes and what you have to offer…the things that have enabled you to succeed in your career and every other area of. Even if you feel like you failed at your marriage, remember that while it takes two people for a successful marriage, it only takes one for it to fail…you didn’t make the decision…she did. Thus the onus of the failure is more hers than yours…I’m not saying to ignore any accountability for mistakes you might have made…definitely own up and learn from those, but just remember that you still had it in you to make it work, she is the one who “threw in the towel.”

[Steve]

Wow…what a good idea. I wish I would have thought of that! As a man with generous tednencies (although much less creative than this guy)…I think I would find an old-fashioned thank you card to be a nice touch…if you know his mailing address, of course.

Along these lines, does anyone know any good websites for those of us with romantic gift giving intetnions but a little creativitly challenged? I’ve done some Googling and have found lots of sites recommending romantic gift giving ideas, but most are either traditional flowers, chocolates and jewlery or things for much longer-term relationships. I am looking for some ideas for things that are cute, quirky and fun that say, “I like you and I’m paying attention to you” but not necessarily “I’m head over heals in love with you.”

[Steve]

One other thing…you were very on top of noticing her laughing at your jokes. I’ve heard a lot of different theories about things that most attract women to men (e.g. food/chocolate, eyes, sensitivity, good abs, etc…), but the one thing that always seems to be the most consistent is that women are almost always attracted to men who can make them laugh. I don’t know why this is and I’m sure its not true for every woman, but my experience has been that the women that I have clicked with the best (whether as friends or girlfriends) are the ones that appreciate and understand my sense of humor.

Like April said, she was definitely into you…and I’m willing to bet it was the laughing that got her started. The trick is now just keep being yourself, because she already likes that…don’t start trying too hard by pre-planning your comedy routine or anything…your natural wit seems to work just fine.

Best of luck!

[Steve]

While I absolutely agree with April’s response here (and I suppose I should since she’s the one with a website, not me)…let me share a little bit of the shy guy’s perspective…

I am not a shy person MOST of the time, however, when it comes to meeting new people on the dating side of things, I am. The reason…I am a typical Type A personality and tend to over analyze most things, which means that I also do a lot of research. When it comes to dating for men, most of the “advice” out there tends to lean in favor of being a little passive regarding making contacts (don’t be over-eager…don’t show too much interest too fast…don’t appear too available…show some interest though…etc.). It can be tricky for us analytical types.

I say all that to say simply that it is possible that this guy is very interested but so focused on trying to “play it perfectly” that he’s not doing anything at all. (Also, keep in mind that you asked him for his number first…and he gave your 2 numbers, perhaps he is expecting that puts the ball in your court!)

That being said, I also believe in following the age-old adage of “just being yourself.” If my inclination is to just call someone, then I do…if it turns her off, then it wasn’t likely to be a good fit anyway. (It’s when I get mixed signals from the other end that I really get confused.) So…while I think you should definitely proceed with moving along to other options…if he does eventually contact you, assume that he was just a little confused about what to do and go easy on him (they always tell actors…”If you’re not nervous for a performance, then you probably don’t care.”)

[Steve]

Thanks…I agree. I appreacite your reply and will heed your good advice.

[Author]

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