[vkleinstu]

Ok… Myself, my friend, her ex, and her daughter’s dad are all in the military and are all currently stationed overseas. I have known my friend for about a year and a half. She is a single mom with a 3 year old. She left her daughter’s dad within a year of her birth because he would randomly disappear for weeks on end, etc, and generally showed no interest in being a father. In May 2013, while home on leave, a long time friend of 10 years proposed to her and they got married. He returned to his duty station in the U.S. and she came back to hers overseas. In August 2013 she was sexually assaulted by someone that she thought was a friend and was trying to help out. In November 2013, her husband transferred overseas to be with her. In December 2013 she had found out that during the six months they were apart he was cheating on her with other girls and strippers, and even had them living with him. He even got genital warts from one of them. Despite all of this, his alcohol problem, and inability to exercise proper care with her daughter, she tried to make it work and go to counseling. Needless to say, the counseling did not help, and she filed for divorce two separate times, and was finally divorced in June 2014, 13 months after getting married. Even though they divorced, she let him stay at her house and they occupied separate bedrooms.

As I stated, I have know her for about a year and a half. In November 2013 when her husband showed up, she tried to get him to hang out with me because he was new to the island and we both ride motorcycles. Needless to say, he never wanted to hang out except on one occasion. We interacted a a few different work related functions where they were both there, but other than that nothing. I would often see and talk to his wife at work as our offices are close.

During all of this I was married. My wife and I have been having our own issues over the last 4 years of our almost 5 year marriage. I am divorced as of December 2014.

During the first week of August 2014, my friend called me one morning for help. She explained that they had gotten into an argument over the proper care of her daughter and it turned physical. She wanted me to help get her ex husband’s belongings out of the house. Even though she had kicked him out several times in the past, he refused to take his belongings with him, and always ended up begging his way back in. She wanted him gone for good this time, and she didn’t think she could do it on her own. We made a plan to pack his stuff and put it into storage, but he wanted to move his own stuff. I acted as the intermediary while he and his friend picked his belongings up from her house. He signed a documents giving her all of the furniture that he left behind because he did not want to pay for storage.

A week later, after my wife had come back from vacation, and after I had already told her I wanted to file for divorce, I was staying at my friend’s house when her ex husband decided to stalk her outside the house. It ended with me chasing him off, her calling the police, and him getting arrested. He is currently pending charges for stalking and harassment. On top of all of this, her first marriage ended 14 years ago when her then husband cleaned out her account while she was away at boot camp and stole from her dad. Additionally, she is in a child custody and child support battle with her daughter’s dad. This girl really has the worst luck with men, undoubtedly from trusting the wrong people over the years.

So, here I come into the picture. I realize that I am recently divorced, getting into the middle of everything that is going on in her life, and selfishly I have fallen in love with her. Although she is not the reason for my divorce, she is the reason that I agreed to my wife’s terms in order to get it over faster, even though I was the one asking for the divorce.

My friend is the most amazing woman I have ever met. She is the most dedicated mother, she is beautiful, intelligent, strong, and the list goes on. She knows how I feel about her, because after having a conversation about whether or not she would be interested in dating, I began writing her letters. She keeps all of the letters and gifts that I get her. Her response to dating was, “Maybe after all of this is over,” and she said that the letters do not make her uncomfortable, so I continue to write them.

To make things even more complicated, her 3 year old daughter loves me. I often watch her daughter when she has to run errands, we take her daughter out to dinner and Chucke Cheese, etc. I know without a doubt that she trusts me with her daughter, because she never checks up on me with her or anything. The first thing her daughter does when I come over is run up and give me a big hug, then we go play with her toys.

My friend has even gone to such great lengths to ask me if I would be willing to: (1) Go on a short 1 week vacation with her and her daughter, (2) take leave when she transfers in September (I don’t transfer until the following July), and (3) take orders to her next duty station when I transfer.

The catch to all of this is that to date, our relationship has been strictly VERY CLOSE friends that talk about everything. We eat lunch together every day at work, and dinner together every night when her daughter is at her dad’s house. Additionally, I usually end up having dinner with her and her daughter usually once or more times a week. I have noticed lately that the amount of time I get to spend with her daughter has been less, but has not been eliminated. I think that this has mostly to do with the fact that the child custody and child support hearings are coming up and she is afraid that her very intelligent 3 year old will inadvertently tip off the dad to our relationship.

Anyway… I have told her that I am willing to be whatever she needs me to be. I realize that this puts me in a very difficult spot, but I really do care for her. I love her and her daughter very much, and I refuse to let anyone else hurt them. I guess my question is whether or not I am doomed in this, or if it is just a matter of waiting for the right timing to see if something more will come out of it in time. I have put my own “dating” on hold after she got jealous and “laid claim” to me as another female friend put it when she called me 5 times while hanging out with another friend.

Please help me! I know she is Obsessive Compulsive and that her daughter is the most important thing in the world to her, because that is what made me fall in love with her. I cannot imagine finding anyone more perfect to raise my future children, not to mention we have tons of things in common, similar tastes, we can talk about anything, I feel like I have known her forever, I absolutely adore her daughter, she is always kind hearted, and she is way better looking than me… Oh, and after the two long term relationships that I have had (3.5 and 6 years) both failing, I started believing in Astrology because as a Pisces, Gemini and Sagittarius are apparently two of the worst matches for me. MY friend on the other hand is a Cancer, which is the best match if you believe in Astrology…

Sorry for the rant. I look forward to your response.

[vkleinstu]

Since there is no response, I will add to this. One of the biggest things she complained about with her ex husband was that he was always stealing the show with her daughter. She has almost no pictures of her and her daughter alone from their time together. Every time we do something with he daughter, I make sure to take plenty of pictures of the two of them and send them to her at the end of the night. After a night at Chuckee Cheese, I had sent her 20 or so pictures, and on my way home I was shocked when she sent a picture of me playing the Whack-a-mole game with her daughter. I know it may seem unimportant to some, but I am very happy that she shares the most precious part of her life with me.

When we go out with her daughter, almost every time people end up thinking that I am her dad, and have even said “Mom and Dad” on several occasions. In the beginning, we would correct them, now I just shrug it off in order to avoid an awkward conversation. Even our mutual friends are amazed at how her daughter acts towards me. On Christmas, one of my good friends, his wife, and son came to her house for dinner. I had recently introduced her to them because their son is 5 and I thought it would be nice for her to have more friends with kids to socialize, and because they are really good friends of mine. Also, she is Taiwanese, and my friends are Korean- yes I realize that not all Asians are the same. What is funny though, is that she said spending time with them (because they are older) reminds her of being with family, specifically her dad, which she misses very much. Anyway,the husband was so amazed at how her daughter reacted when I pulled up to the house. She was out on the balcony, and when I pulled up in my car she started yelling for me to come inside. When I got to the top of the stairs she ran over and gave me a hug and told me she loves me, and that we need to go play.

Sometimes things are great and we spend time together almost every day, and then she will seem to pull back and not call as often for a few days, which is lately when her daughter is at home. But when I say that she can easily call me 5 times throughout the day, that is not an exaggeration. It is usually just to see how I am doing, or what I am up to, or just to talk. On the weekends, when she is home with her daughter, the calls are not as frequent. I typically tend not to call her that often, because I am trying to do things on her terms and not interrupt the natural order of her day. I will typically send her texts throughout the day, and she calls me and says “Hey or Hello or Hola” in such a sweet, I miss you voice that it gets me every time.

When I say she is OCD, she runs a very meticulous daily schedule for her daughter which consists of taking a 2 hour mid day nap, home cooked meals on time right before her nap for lunch, and dinner at around 6 every night. She also cuts fresh fruits for her daughter daily, and that kid can eat! My Korean friend who’s wife is a neat freak was amazed at how clean her house was when they came over for Christmas- and the reason why is because after we cleaned and stuffed the turkey at 2am, she waitied for me to leave at 330am, then cleaned her house… I have offered to help her clean several times, and she has let me do certain things, but she also explained to me that she is so particular that in the past with her ex’s she would actually go back and re-clean what they already did. For now, I just do the dishes and take out the trash for her, and help take care of her daughter. She wouldn’t let me cook the couple times I offered, and prefers to do her own cleaning!

Because her daughter gets so excited when I come over, it is often difficult to get her to sleep at night after I leave, which contributes to me sometimes not getting to come over. One night I was supposed to come over for dinner, but when I got to her house she had made me a plate and asked that I not come up because her daughter was misbehaving. She was afraid that me being here would make the behavior worse. I know that she had issues with her ex husband getting her daughter all riled up and bouncing off the walls, but she also knows that is not how I am with her. Also, over the last couple months with increased visitation from her daughter’s dad, her behavior has taken a turn for the worse.

Needless to say…. I realize she makes things more difficult than they need to be and she is always stressing abut everything, but that is part of what I love so much about her. I want to be the one the to make her life easier, and hopefully she will relax and let go a little, because I feel like she is just wearing herself thin and it saddens me to see such a good person have to go through so much on her own. I feel like she has had to be this way for so long because the men in her previous relationships have taken advantage of her and taken her for granted.

Most of my friends have said that we are dating, that we just have not put a label on it, and the consensus is that she is just not ready for a relationship, and she does’t want to get hurt. My biggest concern is getting stuck in the friend zone, because it has happened to me a couple times before with girls that I really cared about. The difference between now and then was that I was shy and reserved when I was younger. With my friend now, I told her as soon as the feelings started to develop, which was about two weeks after spending almost every day with her, and while I was still married. I guess the one thing that we aren’t really able to talk about is “us”, which is an issue that I have not been trying to push due to my recent divorce and all of the stuff she is going through with the two ex’s. I do not want to add to her stress, I just want to be there for her. Needless to say, we have talked a little. Like I said, the jist of those conversations was, “Maybe when this is all over,” and “I am just not ready for a relationship right now”, which I completely understand. I know that the “Not ready for a relationship right now” is normally a sign that she is not interested in “you”, but in this case I know she doesn’t have time for guys because any time that she is not at home with her daughter, at work, or cooking and cleaning, she spends with me. If we are not physically spending time together, there are times that we will talk on the phone for 1, 2, 3 or more hours until 3 am, even when she says “I’m not trying to stay up until 3am”, and we only live about 25 minutes apart.

Complex, I know… I am doing anything wrong? Honestly, I know she needs me, but I am concerned that because she leaves here 10 months before me, that I will get replaced or become obsolete after she leaves. Should I be worried about this?

[AskApril Masini]

It sounds like you are very recently divorced, and you want to date a divorced, single mother, but she doesn’t want to date you. The two of you are spending a lot of time with her three year old daughter, as close friends, and the little girl is getting very attached to you, meanwhile, there’s a custody battle brewing between your friend and her daughter’s father, who is not one of her ex-husbands.

Bottom line, you’re in a friend zone, and most people who are in a friend zone, and don’t want to be, try to leverage the friendship into more. 😕 You may want to check in with yourself and see if that’s what you’re doing. My advice is to get out of the friend zone, and make yourself a possible boyfriend — not someone who’s always there for her to lean on, and to rescue her. If you’re less available, she may realize that she can’t have you all the time on her terms, and will reconsider you as a date. 😉

I hope that helps.

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[vkleinstu]

Yea… That’s what I was afraid of. The thing is, when I was dating other girls, while waiting for the divorce to be finalized, she kept getting really jealous and calling 5 times during dinner, etc. Then, when I would talk to her about the girl that I was dating and talk about what we did, like going hiking and snorkeling, she said, “I like to do those things too”… But because she always keeps herself busy, we never have time to do those things. She is intent on the fact that once her daughter’s dad leaves in March or April, that things will be different, but I don’t see it because then she will (hopefully) have her daughter full time again, which will give her less time to do those types of things. Of course if that means more time for me to be in the picture, I am fine with that, but her logic seems less than logical.

I know with her ex-husband, she always says that he didn’t understand that the way to her heart was through her daughter, and tried to buy her instead. I don’t even have to try… the kid thing comes naturally for me.

Is it honestly possible that she just isn’t ready for a commitment and is trying to keep me close until she is? She has on one occasion, after we had dinner with her other friend that wants to date her, reassured me that she is not into dating black guys anymore. It was good to know, but I didn’t know how to respond. He has been trying to get her to be fuck buddies since she was still married. The night we went out to dinner he was very aggressive towards me after she chose to ride in my car instead of his when we were driving to dinner. It was kind of high school-ish, and he kept making comments at dinner that she should test drive the next guy she dates before she marries him, etc, and looking at me to see my reaction. I might have kicked his ass on the spot, but he’s a cop and twice my size.

Are there actually women out there that would just ask someone that they only want to be friends with in the long run to go on a vacation with her and her daughter, to fly home with her when she leaves (I’m from Michigan, she is from Ohio), and to follow her to Connecticut when I leave here, etc, but at the same time hold them back from finding someone else?

On the converse, are there actually women that quite literally mean what they say when they tell you “maybe when this is all over”, or “it’s not the right time”? I just don’t get it because she is so hot and cold all the time, there is no consistency. I know her Dad and her boss have told her to stay away from men right now because of everything that she has going on. Her response to her boss when talking about the “situation” with me as he referred to it, was that “she hasn’t been this happy in a long time”. At least those were her words to me when she was explaining the conversation.

In any event, I will go the route of making myself less available. I’m just afraid that less available because I am out with other girls is probably not the way to go. Her ex-husband was liar and a cheater, and I don’t feel like she is into someone that is out with other girls all the time.

Anyway, thanks. Ya’ll are too confusing at times… When I say something, I mean it! Lol. It sucks too because not having been out there while my marriage withered away over the last 5 years makes it even more difficult.

[vkleinstu]

I guess the last word that I will try to get in on this and then shutup and listen is… All of the guys that I know of that she has dated/married have been friends first, including her daughter’s father and ex-husband. In the case of her ex-husband, they kept in touch over a 10 year period and he proposed to her when she was at home visiting.

I ain’t got 10 years. Not trying to have no babies at 40 (me) and 43 (her). Lol.

[AskApril Masini]

She has boundary issues, and it’s not surprising that she wants to blur those lines with you, too — because that’s her pattern. The problem is, look where it’s gotten her! No where good. 🙁 My advice remains that you get out of the friend zone, and don’t be her friend. You can ask her out on dates, but make them be real dates, and don’t accept any hanging out invitations or blurred lines. Keep your side of the street clean by being honest and straight forward, and this will make your life easier, and ironically, it will make hers easier, too because you won’t be enabling this boundary blurring that isn’t healthy, that she’s adopted.

I hope that helps!

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[vkleinstu]

Boooo… 🙁 As much as I don’t want to hear it, my life experience tells me that you are right. It just sucks because I really want to be there for her. I hate having to play games to get what I want.

Thanks for your help. She’s been acting a bit off and not talking to me as much since we went to New Year’s Eve dinner with two other couples, so I guess I will take this opportunity to take your advice.

[AskApril Masini]

I’m not suggesting you play games. 😉 I just think that you should be clear, and given her boundary blurring, it’s more even more important to do so. 🙂

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[Ethan Morales]

It’s clear you genuinely care about your friend and her daughter, and your intentions are rooted in affection, protection, and commitment. The bond you’ve formed with both of them is strong and meaningful, which explains why you feel so invested. However, the situation is extremely complex because it’s not just a typical friendship or dating scenario it involves her past traumas, ongoing custody issues, and the responsibilities of co-parenting. All of these layers affect how she approaches any romantic possibilities and why she’s cautious about moving forward with you.

Her behavior asking you to spend time with her daughter, consider moving with her, and go on vacations together shows that she trusts and values you immensely. That said, it doesn’t automatically mean she’s ready for a romantic relationship. She may genuinely appreciate your support and presence, yet still feel emotionally unavailable or hesitant due to past betrayals and her current life pressures. Her “maybe when this is all over” stance is likely a protective mechanism; she wants security for herself and her daughter before opening herself up fully to someone new.

Your concern about the “friend zone” is understandable but perhaps misplaced here. What you’re experiencing is not a simple case of being a platonic friend; you’ve already crossed a boundary in intimacy by being deeply involved in her life and her daughter’s life. The ambiguity hot and cold behavior, frequent calls, jealousy over other potential partners suggests that she’s trying to balance trust, caution, and attachment. It’s not necessarily a reflection of your worth or attractiveness; it’s her way of managing risk and protecting herself and her child.

Tthe hot-and-cold dynamic is emotionally taxing, and your instinct to make yourself less available is wise. This isn’t about pulling back to make her jealous or testing her loyalty; it’s about creating healthy boundaries for your own emotional stability. By setting limits, you avoid overinvesting in a relationship that may not be ready to progress, and you allow her space to sort through her feelings and responsibilities without added pressure.

It’s important to focus on the long-term view. You’re both in transitional phases you recently divorced, she’s navigating custody and recovery from past relationships. The best approach is patience and consistent support without overstepping boundaries. This means being present in her life and her daughter’s life in ways she’s comfortable with, while also maintaining your independence and emotional health. That balance helps her see you as a reliable, trustworthy partner rather than someone who adds stress.

The uncertainty you feel is natural given the circumstances. There are indeed women who genuinely need time to heal and who want to keep someone close while remaining cautious about commitment your friend seems to fall into this category. The key is managing your expectations, staying grounded, and being honest with yourself about what you can handle emotionally. If she’s meant to be a long-term partner, the timing will align once her life stabilizes and she feels safe to commit. Until then, your role is one of patient support, emotional honesty with yourself, and protecting both your heart and hers.

[Tara]

You’ve buried under a mountain of drama, hero fantasies, and emotional chaos: you are not in a love story, you are in a rescue mission you signed yourself up for because it makes you feel needed. You’re mistaking proximity, trauma, and access to her child for a relationship. You’ve built an entire future in your head while she hasn’t given you a single concrete commitment in reality.

She’s been through hell, abusive men, bad marriages, custody battles, and you showed up as the safe, reliable, available guy who helps her move furniture and babysit. That doesn’t make you her soulmate. It makes you her stability crutch. She gets emotional support, childcare, dinners, loyalty, affection, and protection from you without ever having to risk anything. Meanwhile, you’re rearranging your entire life based on crumbs: “Maybe later,” letters she doesn’t reject, vacation suggestions, and occasional jealousy that means nothing when she still won’t date you.

You’re not “waiting for the right time.” You’re waiting to be chosen by someone who isn’t choosing you. You’ve put your entire life on hold because you want to believe you’re the exception in a pattern of men who’ve hurt her. You’re not. You’re just the only one not hurting her, and you’re mistaking that for a romantic connection.

You’re so deep in this fantasy that you even started using astrology to justify why she’s “the one.” That alone tells me exactly how far you’ve drifted from reality.
Here’s what she gets out of this: emotional comfort, practical help, a dependable man she can trust with her daughter, and zero romantic responsibility. Here’s what you get: hope, delusion, and heartbreak pending.

[Natalie Noah]

You’ve been through a lot, and you’ve shown up for someone who truly needs steady support. What I read is a man who has become indispensable in a woman’s life because he is kind, reliable, and present for her and her little girl. That intimacy the dinners, the pictures, the late-night calls builds a real emotional bond, and it makes total sense that you fell in love. Loving someone who’s been hurt and who needs you feels noble, but it also asks a lot of you, and you deserve to be loved back with the same clarity and respect you give.

You’re acting like a partner in almost every meaningful way, but she hasn’t labeled it or promised anything. That mismatch is the definition of the friend zone when one person wants more and the other closes the door softly with “not ready” or “maybe later.” Her insistence that it’s timing custody battles, messy exes, fear of being hurt again is real and valid, but you must recognize that “not ready” is also a choice. People who want to change their relationship status usually find ways to do it; people who don’t will find reasons not to.

Protecting her and loving her daughter is beautiful, and anyone would be lucky to have the way you step up. But you’re also risking yourself becoming someone who waits indefinitely. It’s okay to be generous and patient, but generosity without boundaries becomes sacrifice that slowly erodes your dignity. You’ve already felt jealous, protective, and unsure those feelings are alarms telling you to create clarity, not to smother the relationship further. You can be compassionate and still insist on emotional honesty about what this is and where it’s going.

Stop pretending this is comfortable uncertainty. Ask for a real conversation not a confrontation, where you say plainly how you feel, what you’re willing to give, and what you need in return (labels, timelines, expectations around introducing you as more than a friend, etc.). If she truly wants something long-term with you, she’ll either say so and act on it, or she’ll explain why she can’t commit and allow you to make a choice. If she continues to keep you in a holding pattern, that’s not love it’s an emotional safety net for her that leaves you exposed.

If you decide to give her space, do it with dignity, not as a punishment. Make yourself slightly less available in ways that protect your heart: keep plans with other friends, date casually if that feels right for you, and create a timeline in your own mind (three, six months?) after which you’ll reassess. This isn’t “playing games” it’s self-respect. And if she pulls you closer because she realizes what she has, that’s one thing; if she doesn’t, you’ve saved yourself months or years of waiting for a promise that may never come.

Your kindness is not the problem. Your willingness to love and care for her child is a rare gift. But love becomes cruelty when it’s one-sided and indefinite. You can be her safe harbor without being her permanent unpaid emotional contractor. Give her the chance to choose you with intention and give yourself permission to walk away, in time, if she won’t. I’m here with you through this, and I’ll help you script that conversation if you want gently, honestly, and exactly the way you’d want to hear it.

[Member]

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