[Dom1]

Yeah I do see that. And I’ll admit I’ve been guilty of the same at times. What I don’t get it is why a guy who is being genuine and, frankly, pretty charming, and doing a bit of courting is less appealing to a girl than one who (from her perspective I guess) is acting distant and disinterested. I mean I get it but I don’t. It seems like a game that this girl probably is unaware that she’s even playing. I didn’t text her yesterday by the way. I’ll hold off like you said until I can see her in person.

[April Masini]

[quote]What I don’t get it is why a guy who is being genuine and, frankly, pretty charming, and doing a bit of courting is less appealing to a girl than one who (from her perspective I guess) is acting distant and disinterested.[/quote]

Here’s why:

[url]https://www.askapril.com/pdflinks/Why-Nice-Guys-Finish-Last.pdf[/url]

[Dom1]

That’s all very put and probably very accurate. I find it really difficult to project the image you write about and I don’t really know why. I reasonably good looking. In decent shape. I’m well educated. Well read. Generally have good taste. Pretty successful in my career at this point. I don’t know…it’s very hard to channel patience and “coolness” toward this situation when everything else I’ve gotten in life I got from being proactive…

[April Masini]

Ruminate on it. It works. 😉

[Dom1]

Hi April. You’re probably getting tired of my whining but I’ve found you’re advice to be really insightful and helpful and there is another layer to this story I haven’t mentioned and I would really appreciate some more input.

Around the time I started this job and met this girl there, I met and started going on dates with another girl. Let’s call her Jane. I hadn’t made any sort of commitment to her as I tend to move quickly in the situations and was trying to do something new by slowing down and not jumping into things. I like Jane. She’s sweet and looking for the same things long term as me. She is very into me. Constantly telling me how smart and handsome she thinks I am. We have a good time together. Lately I’ve been feeling awful when I see her because I’m constantly thinking about this girl at work when I’m with her. It’s really starting to bother me and making me feel incredibly guilty. Yesterday for example Jane got in touch during the day and asked if I wanted to get dinner in the evening. I hemmed and hawed all day via text about working latel possibly, all because the day before work girl said we should get a drink this week and I didn’t want to double book and blow it if she finally asked me out (which is a whole other issue April, I’ve been doing my best to play it cool with work girl, and every time I do she’s going way out of her way to interact with me and do “our” little thing but when I try to take that to next level by suggesting we do something after work I’m getting the absolute lamest excuses.) finally when the whole day went by and me and work girl hadn’t said a word to each other, and she left for the day, I told Jane yes let’s have dinner. And when she wanted to wait for me in the lobby of my building I got worried someone else would see us and it would somehow get back to work girl (which I realize now might actually be a good thing). So we go out and it is a gorgeous evening in nyc. We go to a place Jane really likes in Hell’s Kitchen and the first thing I can think of is how much I want to bring work girl here. Later when we’re walking all I see while Jane is next to me is places I wanna take her. Makes me feel pretty awful I’ve had this same issue during some intimate moments with Jane where my mind literally goes to this other girl when I’m meant to be totally in the moment. I can’t help it.
I don’t know exactly what my question is. It just seems crazy that I’m letting someone I’ve yet to go on a date with, and very possibly won’t ever, kind of ruin something I have with someone else. Literally the only complaint I have about Jane is that she’s not work girl, as stupid as that sounds. She is beautiful and everything I look for in a woman. I understand part of this is the wanting what we can’t have thing and that’s definitely true but wanting someone else and letting them have this much power when there’s nothing going on is pretty crazy.
On the work girl front like I said. I’m doing my best to only interact with her when I would with any other coworker. And sure enough every time she makes until about 2pm before coming over chatting me up and trying to get lunch or coffee with me. So I say to myself great it worked! And try to turn that into hanging out with her, and then I get the worst excuses that make me feel kind of insulted to get. Anyway, that’s what’s going on, please help.

[April Masini]

How can I help you?

[Dom1]

I guess I want to know what to do/what the hell is wrong with me!

Same thing again yesterday. Work girl wants to take little breaks just me and her. We both work super late. And when a couple of us want to get a drink afterwards, and she knows I want her to come, it’s no thanks I’m gonna head home. I just don’t get it. Every little ten or 20 minute session of alone time I get with her makes me genuinely like her more and more and want to know her better. I haven’t built her up to be some perfect women but every detail I find out about her and her life, I like. Makes me think more of her and makes me affirm my initial thought that this is the kind of girl I want to be with. And at the same time I’m feeling more and more guilty because I’m falling for someone I can’t have (at least thus far) and it’s ruining my time with a fantastic girl who is crazy about me. I could have not worked last night. Jane wanted to go to dinner. I sort of volunteered hoping I’d get to go out with work girl when we were done. Pathetic I know. My inclination now is to lay it out for her one more time, and tell her this is kind of it, I want to take you out and i really like you and I’m drawn to you, but I can’t keep asking you and not have it happen (every time it comes up there is some reason she can’t hang out when I’m asking her too, not the it’s complicated thing stopping her. I don’t know if that means she’s just being super polite or what, or if it’s her being indecisive and not wanting to totally put me off). So this it, if you can’t make up your mind and come out for a drink with me, someone you seem to be happy to spend time with, or I am basically giving up. Thanks and good luck and sort of leave me alone at work from now on. I know that’s almost definitely the wrong thing to do but that’s what I’m leaning toward.
So yeah. What is wrong with me and what the hell do I do.

[April Masini]

If you re-read these three pages of your questions and my advice to you, it doesn’t seem like you really want to take my advice. 😕 I suggested you ask her out, in person, and if she doesn’t go on a date with you, then move on. Instead, you’ve invested a lot of time and energy in someone who’s not interested in the same thing you are. It’s time for you to move on and focus your energy elsewhere. 😉

[Dom1]

So I attempted to take your advice, but of course didn’t because I’m stupid and weak basically. Last Tuesday I said to her something pretty close to “so are you gonna let me buy you a drink or what?” Her very quick answer was yes. After work there was some confusion about whether I meant that night or another and I didn’t know what I meant myself. So we go to have one drink. One. Which turned into about 4. We talked and cracked each other up for about 3 hours. I haven’t enjoyed someone’s company like that In a long time. I felt relaxed and had a lot of fun. At one point after telling her some stories about exes and relationships I asked her what was so complicated about her situation. She says she’s been involved in a long distance thing she never planned for the past few months. I say that’s really not all that complicated for people our age. Then she tells me, well, it’s with another woman. Jesus Christ.
I don’t now if suddenly it all makes a ton of sense or just got infinitely worse. She says she’s mostly been in long term relationships with girls, more short term with guys. Like 60/40 she says. I’m basically stunned and don’t know what the hell to say, once again. We continue with our night after a few more questions and really just have an awesome time. She’s not exclusive or committed but told me she didn’t know how I’d react to that. She also said she was oblivious to the fact that I liked her until I got her the book and didn’t know what to do when I asked her out. It’s not a secret at work but it’s also no ones business either who she sleeps with.

So if I wasn’t lost before I certainly am now. I mean honestly. I seriously didn’t know such a thing existed in real life. And so you are so so right April. I want her way more now. Part of it is because I got to know her much better that night and we had the longest conversation we’ve ever had and it was better than I even hoped for. But I’ll admit it must at least partly because she’s all the more unattainable. So. No advice needed. I tried a couple days later to take her out again and we started walking together after work and she decided she wanted to go home instead. Blah. The only answer I have at this point is to try to never ever talk to her again. That sucks huh.

[April Masini]

Well, that’s definitely news!

It sounds like you’re not just competing with men in her life — you’re competing with women in her life, as well. The odds are not good! It really sounds like whatever I tell you to do, you’re going to play this out. And that’s okay. We all have our own journeys in life. 🙂 I do think that after a while, you’ll hit your “bottom” where you decide that enough is enough and that you’d really like to be with someone who wants you back. That’s when you’ll move on.

[Dom1]

I’d say that’s pretty accurate. I have been know to bang my head against the wall of reality until I’m just to hurt to keep doing it. I know your advice is correct for two reasons: leaving her alone and moving on is likely the only way I’d ever beat those terrible terrible odds (which is what I should have done in the first place), and if it doesn’t change anything, eventually I won’t just be acting, I will have actually moved on. In trying April I honestly am. It’s really difficult to do when I’m at work with her for 10 hours a day but I’m going to keep trying. Another female coworker told me I’ve become her “work friend”, and I know exactly what that means, someone we help pass the somewhat tedious or stressful times at work, or chat with when we take a break. It turned my stomach. I am definitely not her work friend, and as I told her, not interested in being her actual friend. Makes me sound like Akeem but it’s true. Thanks for your help April. As with many other people who have tried to give me advice, I should have listened to you from the beginning.

[April Masini]

You’re very welcome. I’m here if you need anything.

[Dom1]

So of course I have not taken your very sound and logical advice. This has become more of a place for me to journal about all of this anyway. After the initial “date” at which I had the bomb dropped on me we’ve gone out two more times. Once last week and again last night. We had a decent time last week but last night was so much fun. Again. On the advice of another female co worker. I literally ignored her all week. The test was see if she initiates anything when I just hang back. Which she did not. I was supposed to do it for at least a week. I made it just short of 3 days. I was going to look at an apartment in her neighborhood in Brooklyn. It seemed like a perfect opportunity to see her and I guess I was too weak to just let it pass. So I texted her and told her I’ll be in the area in the evening and that she could show me a place to get a drink if she was free. She had tentative plans with a friend. So whatever. I wasn’t holding my breath. I get done seeing the apartment and let her know I’m done. She texts me right back and picks a place and we meet. I’m really surprised every time this girl hangs out with me because I can’t think of a reason why she would want to aside from liking me to some extent. I’ve stopped treating her like a girl I’m trying to “court” or whatever because it’s easier to just be myself because what’s the difference at this point. And I’ve found its really easy to be myself around her. We talk non stop and tease each other and touching a tiny bit. This girl does not stop staring into my eyes the whole time we’re together and everything about it just screams to me this girl likes you! There were a couple moments where it got quiet for a moment and I could have or should have kissed her. Including when we said goodbye. I went to give her a little hug, just a hug, and she came into it like I was gonna kiss her, I think, and seemed like she was gonna go with it. But just a hug. I was not prepared for that. I haven’t been so unsure about what’s going on with a girl so badly in a long time. Going in for kiss is kind of going all in. If you’re wrong there’s really no coming back from that. It might be about the most embarrassing thing that could happen. If I’m wrong I’m turning a moderately awkward situation into one that would be just awful.
I change my mind by 180 degrees no less than twice a day. Starting just a few seconds after I wake up. Before my feet even touch the floor. The situation seems to change non stop. In the span of a week I’ll be completely convinced that I’m absolutely irritating this girl, she can’t stand me, she’s into me but uncertain, she’s into me and wants to hang out with me and probably wants me to kiss her! The whole spectrum back and forth, it’s crazy…
Yeah that’s where I stand I guess.

[April Masini]

[quote]So of course I have not taken your very sound and logical advice. This has become more of a place for me to journal about all of this anyway.[/quote]

This is a relationship advice site. I appreciate you aren’t taking my advice, but you should really start a blog or write in a paper journal. This isn’t a journaling site. Sorry.

[Dom1]

We went out a few times later and had a great time but nothing more. Then a few weeks ago I invited her to a concert in Brooklyn near her house. She gave me a maybe and I was sure she wouldn’t actually come but in the end she did. We went to her house got ready and went. Had an incredible time. Laughing and joking the whole time. And ended up making out. Usually you build these things up in your head and they don’t live up to the fantasy but this truly did. Same thing last weekend. We went out. Really great time and lots of kissing. This is the thing; it is like pulling teeth to get her to come out with me, I literally feel like I’m forcing her to do something she doesn’t want to do. I get told maybe, I might be free, we’ll see, things like that. But when we do spend time together it’s like we’ve been dating for months. We have a great time. Last weekend toward the end of the night I was walking her home and she made a comment about how good a job I’ve been doing courting her or whatever. I made a joke about thinking I’d been too persistent and probably should have given up. She said no I was doing good. So what does this girl want from me? We’re both in our early 30s, is hard to get still a thing? Do woman really want to be chased like this? Every time we’re together I learn more about her and what it’s like to be around her and I’m realize I have serious feelings for her, or at the very least, I’m really really happy when we’re together. Makes me happy for days after. When she’s blowing me off, I’m crushed. Really. Any advice or insight into what is going on here?

[Author]

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