[dustin]

I have just read your article for why nice guy’s never get the girl. Maybe in Hollywood or certain areas the girls like being cheated on and treated like they are dirt but most girls I talk to always want a nice guy until they have one. I agree there is not much excitement with a guy who doesn’t drink, smoke, drug or sleaze around with girls behind his gf’s back not to mention slap her around when she goes out without telling him. I can tell you that I used to be kind of a jerk to women. I never physically abused anyone nor did I cheat but I used to drink, smoke, drug and party. I did get more girls but they were the wrong type. They were easy to get into bed and most of them were ok with just sex and no attachments. It was fun and I was honest for the most part about what the situation was from my point of view so I never led any girls on. Anytime I did have a steady girlfriend who claimed she loved me I was cheated on left and right if not treated like garbage. I am under the impression that women in this universe are either evil by nature (as are men but I do not have to date them)or they have no clue what they want from a guy. I am what you consider boring now. I am in school and work as well as work out and other stuff. and when I get done with school I will have everything a good girl wants from a guy. I’m a good guy but I do know how and when to be bad and I’m very good at it. I am attractive and have been single for the past 7+ years (I have dated though) and I can tell you I will not be fixing the Bad Boy’s screw ups. If a girl is damaged goods cuz she stayed with a cheating lying jerk who gave her STD’s and all of a sudden she wants a nice guy to fix everything she can keep moving. I notice many girls who date just for money and status, I also notice girls who seem not to care if the guy is a complete loser. I have been the jerk and I have been the nice guy and I like comfort of knowing I don’t have to worry about going to the clinic cuz I picked the girl who likes the Bad Boys!.. I am sure you are right about girls not liking good guys but you failed to look at the character of the women who choose the wrong guy. Many of them have issues as I have found out the hard way. We live in a petty and shallow society. Our entertainment is mostly based on people hurting each other. Girls have Paris and Britney to look up to no wonder why they look for scumbag guys to trade diseases with. I hope you can read this for what it is and I’m not really disagreeing with you but you should mention that any girl with half a brain should demand respect from a guy and give the guy who cares about her a chance. When she gets ready to settle down she will want him and he may not be there. I have Ex’s look me up on myspace all the time and I would never take the risk of going back to that
hell again. Thanks for the advice April.

[salvador in mexico]

Esto lo escribo en ingles. Hello April,
I was reading about your “nice guys finish last” article how American women chase the bad guys and leave the good guys alone.

You should tell the good guys to come to Mexico. 😀

Women who have suffered poverty and single parenthood in Mexico really do like nice guys. I am Mexican-American, dual national, and there is no shortage of wonderful, strong, independent and beautiful women in Mexico who seek nice men — in fact they really enjoy American men and they are not looking for green cards.

I’ve already helped a number of my single male friends who are “typical nice guys” meet their future wives here
in Mexico. I have to give them crash courses in Spanish, but they learn and the language of Love is universal.

I wish you could point these poor guys in a southerly direction, but make it a point to tell them they have to leave U.S. culture to find truly worthy women. Women in the U.S. (of ANY ethnic origin) change and conform to consumerism too strongly. And they don’t suffer in terms of poverty and deprivation as they do in Mexico or
other third world countries.

You don’t die of hunger in the U.S. Children don’t die of hunger in the U.S. — especially US born children, there’s Medi-Care. And deadbeat dads pay their child support — in Mexico they leave and go to the U.S. and pay nothing and start new families and leave women to fend for themselves. It is horrible, awful, and definitely
not what a “nice guy” would do. And when these women who have really suffered for their children and themselves meet a “nice guy” that U.S. women discard, they cannot believe that any woman would discard them.

Tell your male readers to look outside the U.S. culture — that they can still be “nice guys” and not become “bad guys” to get a date or find a wife and have a family. I am only one person and I have told as many as will listen to me, but you have the ear of a wider audience. Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala,
Belize, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia etc… There is no shortage of women in these countries who would love to love and be loved by “nice guys”.

And you don’t have to be rich or even have a car to experience love.

[andrew]

Dear April:

I read with interest your article by the title:

Dating Secret Exposed: Why Nice Guys Finish Last.

I’m no expert in this area but hope that I may share my view on your valuable guidance.

I agree that men (or woman) who fawn over the object of their affection can repel rather than appeal.

You say: “I’ll bet you’ve never heard a woman say she didn’t want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting — have you?”

But these same desirable men may turn out to be arrogant or cocky instead of ‘confident’; over zealous, reckless or moody instead of ‘passionate’ & ‘exciting’.

Perhaps you can provide more insight into how one delineates these aspects so early on in the dating process ?

Those ‘nice guys’ may seem like wimps, but often it’s an aspect of character that makes one humbled by life’s unpredictable twists and turns and the mere frailty of establishing human relationships that can turn suddenly sweet or sour. Could nice guys be simply a bit shy or green to the dating process and cautious of error in delicate interactions ? I know that I was.

Is it possible that some of the schemas that are stereotypically associated with ‘strong men’ don’t jibe well with ‘nice guy’ ? Is a ‘gentle’ man weak ? Is a sweet mannered man ‘effeminate’ ? Is a calm demeanor ‘boring’ ?

You have hit upon an important aspect of human appeal. It is unfortunate however, that stereotypes remain the prevailing metric by which woman judge prospective male partners and vice versa.

May I suggest that it is exceedingly difficult for men (or woman) to change or intentionally act out a different persona without being true to themselves?

For example, if a shy individual was attempting to appeal to a prospective date and attempted to portray confidence without arrogance, when he/she characteristically exhibits neither, couldn’t that be a recipe for disaster?

Would it not be better to be naturally one’s shy self and if the prospect doesn’t find it appealing than so be it ! Either one eventually garners the confidence to be more assertive or move on to someone who actually finds the shyness appealing !

Perhaps knowing one’s enneagram would be a useful way of empowering an individual to find the potentials and limitations for seeking relationships and finding self understanding.

In my own experience, it may be that by some stroke of luck that I found my mate for life. It was difficult at first for me to show much confidence, passion or excitement to my future wife when we first dated. It all came eventually but it seemed that other qualities appealed more to both of us initially.

Isn’t confidence acquired through finding success in one’s pursuits? Many young people don’t have enough experiences where they have achieved a level of confidence in themselves when they begin dating. So isn’t it often the case that those who exhibit ‘confidence’ may often be simply acting out their hubris?

Isn’t passion more easily acquired from the excitement of being in love? That too can come once a relationship has blossomed and deepened. And isn’t it all the more exciting for two people to feel a mutual desire to nurture the relationship? If this is left to only one partner to be ‘exciting’ to the other, would you agree that the co-dependency may turn into something less than exciting?

It is a pleasure to read your insights and advice. I hope you will find this email of some interest.

Best wishes.

Sincerely,

Andrew

[Anonymous]

I normally don’t even glance at the
articles printed throughout the internet; but
after the eye catching title “Why nice Guys

[larry]

I read your article on yahoo about nice guys, while sitting here beating myself up for doing all the things you warn against. It’s been my problem my whole life. I really like this woman. I started getting to know her a while ago and have been more impressed with her every time I’ve been with her. She is unlike anyone I’ve ever met, in that she is interested and knowledgeable of so many of my obscure and sometimes odd interests. I felt such a connection with her that I mistakenly started acting as though she was feeling the same way. I went on to do everything wrong. I have slid right into the “friend zone” where I typically reside. I know from my experiences in life that the ship has sailed, But if there is something I can do to get it back, it would be worth it. I’ve been having so much fun being with her, but It’s getting less fun the more I care and the less she seems to. I’ve decided to just walk away for now, to try and stop my downward spiral. What I’m wondering is if there is anyway to repair the damage I’ve done.

[JMG]

I haven’t read all of this thread, but I’ve read enough to throw in my 2 cents. This is coming from a confident-in-all-things-other-than-dating young woman who’s been the object of a few “nice guy” infatuations — but I’ve never had a boyfriend. I turn down these “nice guys” faster than the few players that have seemed interested, too… However, the guys that I’VE fallen for have likewise been “nice guys.” They are polite, respectable, and amazingly respectful. The difference between the guys I like and the guys I run as far away from as fast as I can basically comes down to a few key things. The guys I’m attracted to are men I can respect; they know what they want in their lives (as in jobs, what they are looking for in relationships, etc.). They know how to make things happen — if they are unhappy with the situation they are in, they look for ways to change it and act on these things when appropriate. That being said, they are usually also able to make themselves happy in almost any situation — their happiness isn’t dependent on the “perfect” job, or wrapped up in having a girlfriend. These are the qualities that separate them from the “nice guys” that I can’t stand to be around, certainly not in a relationship context. It’s not necessarily the “fawning” — the amount of attention is probably equal between the “players” and the ultra “nice guys” — but I need a guy that not only pays me attention (to a certain extent) but knows what he wants and can handle me being stubborn, independent, and confident, too. A man that I know I can rely on to tell me when I’m wrong, who can accept me as his equal and who I can also accept as my equal. A man that I can have a disagreement with and not be too terribly worried that I didn’t break the poor guy’s spirit just by raising my voice if it happens (my upbringing included a lot of yelling — while I’m working on having more healthy communication, I’m not going to promise that it won’t slip out). I need a strong guy…a strong nice guy. There is a difference.

[April Masini, your AskApril]

Happy New Year! Let me know how things are going for you.

[Ethan Morales]

I hear you, and your reflections make a lot of sense. What you’re describing isn’t really about “nice guys finish last” in a vacuum it’s about patterns, choices, and the kinds of people you end up attracting. Your insight that many women who chase the “bad boy” often have unresolved issues or are looking for excitement rather than stability is accurate. And you’re also right: being a “nice guy” doesn’t mean being a doormat it’s about holding standards, being honest, and expecting mutual respect.

Here’s the key: you’ve experienced both sides being the “jerk” and being the “good guy” and you’ve learned what you will and won’t accept. That self-awareness is huge. It’s not that nice guys inherently lose it’s that some men settle for women who aren’t ready to appreciate the respect, care, and stability they offer. And some women pursue excitement over long-term compatibility, which is their choice it doesn’t devalue your worth or character.

The reality is, when a woman is ready to settle down and truly values a partner, a man like you consistent, honest, attractive, and aware of boundaries becomes exactly the kind of person she’ll want. In other words, the timing and the type of woman matter more than being “nice” or “bad.”

You’re already doing the hard part: understanding your own worth, setting boundaries, and refusing to fix someone else’s mess. That’s the foundation for attracting the right person. The challenge now is patience waiting for someone who’s genuinely aligned with your values, not just someone who’s convenient or exciting in the short term.

If you want, I can break down some practical ways to spot the women who are truly ready for a respectful, lasting relationship so you don’t waste time on the “bad boy attraction” crowd. Do you want me to do that?

[PassionSeeker]

It really sounds like you’ve been through a lot of growth not just in how you see women, but in how you see yourself. You’ve lived both sides of the story, and that gives you a kind of wisdom most people never reach. You’re absolutely right that there are women who chase chaos or excitement because they’re still trying to fill something in themselves, and that doesn’t make them bad it just makes them unready for what you’re offering.

What matters now is that you don’t let those experiences harden your heart. The truth is, there are women who value kindness, honesty, and calm strength they just tend to appear when you’ve stopped trying to prove your worth to people who can’t see it.

Keep living the life you’ve built focused, grounded, and proud of how far you’ve come. The right kind of woman will see that, not as “boring,” but as rare.

[Marcus king]

Here’s the thing you’re not wrong about what you’ve seen. A lot of people do choose chaos because it feels familiar, exciting, or because they haven’t done the work to know what healthy actually looks like. Hurt people chase what mirrors their hurt. And yes, when they finally burn themselves out, they go looking for the steady guy to clean it all up.

But that doesn’t mean all women are like that. You’re just noticing the ones who are still unhealed because that’s who you’ve been crossing paths with. When you’re in your own rebuilding phase, you attract people who are also still figuring themselves out. When you were partying, you got women who were also living in that lane. Now that you’re growing, you’re still in transition so you’re seeing the women who haven’t caught up yet.

When a man can be kind and confident, caring and grounded in his standards that’s when he gets the right woman.

So keep becoming the man you’re building yourself to be. But don’t close the door and decide the whole world is trash. You’re just not at the part where your match shows up yet.

And when she does you won’t need to “fix” her. She’ll be standing beside you, not leaning on you to stay up.

[Sally]

It’s easy to blame “women” as a whole when you’ve been burned a few times, but honestly, that bitterness is doing more damage than any ex ever did.

Most women don’t want jerks. They also don’t want a guy who walks around expecting to be disappointed. That kind of anger shows, even when you think you’re hiding it.

You’ve grown up a lot school, work, taking care of yourself that’s solid. Just don’t let the past turn you hard. Not every woman is broken. Not every woman is using someone. A lot of them are just trying to figure life out the same way you are.

Slow down. Meet people where they are. Respect goes both ways. You’ll find someone who matches that, but not if you’ve already decided the whole world is trash.

[Natalie Noah]

I see across all these messages, Dustin’s frustration, Salvador’s cultural observations, Andrew’s thoughtful reflection, Larry’s heartbreak, and JMG’s clarity is a giant, tangled mix of pain, misunderstanding, and unmet expectations between “nice guys,” “bad boys,” and the women they’re trying to love. But underneath all of it is one truth: being a good man is not the problem being a passive, insecure, or self-erasing man is. Women aren’t rejecting kindness; they’re rejecting men who abandon themselves, who cling, who have no inner direction. And when Dustin says girls “want bad guys,” what they actually want is confidence, boundaries, passion, and a sense of leadership qualities that can absolutely exist in a kind man. The issue isn’t goodness; it’s energy. Nice men who don’t trust themselves often give off an energy of fear, resentment, or neediness, and that’s what pushes women away, not their kindness.

The second truth I see is this: the women these men are choosing matter. Salvador is right not all cultures, not all communities, not all women value the same things. Some women are drawn to chaos, unresolved trauma, or the thrill of being chosen by someone unpredictable. Some women are simply not ready for healthy love. And when a man chooses someone whose emotional patterns are rooted in trauma, instability, or superficiality, he will suffer no matter how “nice” or “bad” he is. Andrew is so wise in pointing out that shyness, humility, or gentleness are not flaws but without self-worth, they can look like weakness. Confidence, passion, and decisiveness don’t come from pretending; they come from emotional maturity, from knowing who you are and what your life stands for. Healthy women respond to that whether the man is bold or quiet, loud or soft.

And finally… the stories from Larry and JMG show the difference between a man who hands over his power and a man who holds his center. A woman can feel the difference instantly. Larry slid into the friend zone because he made her the center of his world before he even knew if she wanted that role. JMG said it perfectly: she’s attracted to “strong nice guys,” men who are kind but grounded, who respect themselves first, men who can say no, men who lead their own lives, not just orbit hers. A healthy woman wants a partner, not a servant. The real lesson in all these experiences is simple and gentle: a man doesn’t need to stop being nice he just needs to stop abandoning himself. Women respond to kindness, yes but kindness paired with strength, and love paired with self-respect. And the men who learn that… never finish last.

[Member]

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